IntelliJ IDEA: The Documentary | An origin story
Chapters12
Founders discuss the motivation to build a lightweight, smart IDE and the early struggle with competing tools and the scale of the task.
IntelliJ IDEA's origin story is a relentless, user-driven battle to reinvent Java tooling, blending deep code understanding with a devotion to speed, openness, and community.
Summary
CultRepo’s documentary-style interview reveals how JetBrains built IntelliJ IDEA from the ground up, driven by a need to escape Java’s clunky tooling and create something lighter yet smarter. The team chased the first-mover advantage, with a philosophy of effortless, transparent workflows where the IDE anticipates a developer’s needs. The transition from internal experimentation to a commercial yet open approach—split into Community and Ultimate editions—played a pivotal role in fending off Eclipse and shaping modern IDE expectations. The narrative highlights dogfooding, open source strategy, and key product decisions like dark UI themes and early Android Studio collaboration, all under a banner of “develop with pleasure.” The speakers stress speed as the core value, continuous iteration, and the culture of empowerment at a relatively autonomous JetBrains. The origin story also touches on the emotional highs and existential risks of startup life, including licensing shifts, community trust, and the long arc of building a sustainable business around a developer tool. Finally, the dialogue pivots to AI’s future role in IDEs, underscoring the balance between human insight and automation while reaffirming a commitment to reliable, intuitive tooling for developers.
Key Takeaways
- IntelliJ IDEA’s developers aimed to create an IDE that didn’t mention Java, focusing on language-agnostic ideas like code completion, refactorings, and formatting powered by code analysis.
- Speed is the most important attribute for developer tools, backed by a brain-chemistry argument that faster feedback reinforces productive flow.
- JetBrains leveraged dogfooding (developers using IntelliJ to build IntelliJ) to deeply empathize with users and rapidly iterate on features.
- The open-source Community Edition lowered entry barriers, expanding the user base and enabling widespread experimentation without sacrificing a paid Ultimate edition revenue model.
- Android Studio’s birth on top of the IntelliJ platform exemplified how open core, collaboration with Google, and feature-sharing can redefine a platform’s ecosystem.
- Dark UI was a bold, early differentiator that helped attract users, with Konstantin Bulenkov playing a key role in its development.
- The switch from perpetual to subscription licensing was handled transparently, guided by community feedback and rapid responses to concerns, which reinforced trust and loyalty.
Who Is This For?
Software developers, product managers, and tech entrepreneurs who want to understand how a developer-focused company built a lasting IDE ecosystem and navigated open source, licensing, and platform partnerships.
Notable Quotes
""hey, this is not the best way to do something.""
—The IDE’s ability to guide developers before running code highlights IntelliJ’s proactive quality checks.
""Speed is the most important thing I value in developer tools.""
—A core principle driving design decisions for performance and flow.
""Something that everyone takes for granted now, like the dark UI theme.""
—Early UX differentiator that helped broaden adoption.
""Dogfooding... there's a lot of developers who are using IntelliJ IDEA to create IntelliJ IDEA.""
—Emphasizes the culture of using the product to improve the product.
""The support and the community around the brand... should be built.""
—Shows how JetBrains values community feedback and transparent response.
Questions This Video Answers
- How did JetBrains use dogfooding to improve IntelliJ IDEA during its early days?
- Why did IntelliJ IDEA choose a split between Community Edition and Ultimate Edition?
- What role did Android Studio play in expanding the IntelliJ platform and its ecosystem?
- How does Kotlin’s adoption relate to IntelliJ’s platform strategy?
- What are the future AI considerations for IDEs like IntelliJ according to its creators?
IntelliJ IDEAJetBrainsAndroid StudioAndroid developmentEclipse competitionOpen source strategyCommunity EditionDark UI themeUI/UX in IDEsCode editing and refactoring tooling
Full Transcript
So actually in this regard I can be very honest. It's hard to speak about emotions. Yeah. Especially for engineers. For the first time I met a smart tool and the scary part about that is sometimes intelliJ IDEA was much smarter than me. Basically the main challenge was the size of the task. I guess I can start from the beginning. If you don't mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. So in the very beginning we just looked at, okay, we look at the competitors we look at all these IDEs and we see, okay, what is, like, how much is in general, like...
if we were to rebuild something like this, how much stuff would have to be there? And as soon as you become the number one there's always someone who is trying to chase you and and your job is much harder than theirs because they just -- they learn from what you're doing and they just imitate you. You have to be the first one; you have to experiment; you have to invent. I would say that IntelliJ, in some sense, rescued the Java language from itself. That the experience of programming in Java without an IDE is kind of a mess.
Unfortunately, Java didn't include an IDE when it first released and IntelliJ came along and, you know, provided what was missing. My main challenge was basically to create an IDE that did not have any mention of Java in it whatsoever. A lot of people started to use Rails specifically because they wanted to escape from the world of Java because they hated what the Java enterprise stood for at that time. Java has evolved a lot in the intermediate times but back then it was seen as something very heavyweight; very bloated. We needed to separate a lot of concept to split interfaces and implementations because implementations were so much Java dependent that they didn't suit any other language.
When I first started programming Java, I didn't use an IDE. They taught us how to do it in a text editor. You write the code, you compile the code, the code doesn't work, and then you have to keep going through these iterations of 'what did I do wrong? What do I need to change?' Later on when IDEs were introduced to Java, particularly when I started using IntelliJ IDEA, I could see that IntelliJ IDEA, that the editor itself tells you before you've even compiled it, before you've run anything: "hey, this is not the best way to do something." So you know instantly that there are better ways to write the code or that you've made a mistake.
I was very used to these very slow, clunky alternatives, things like J Developer and JBuilder and whatever. And I was looking for something more lightweight but sophisticated. You can easily relate from when you get angry if you're using some software. Like I often say I hate developers. I hate them because they produce the crappy software and I'm -- I feel maybe responsible for being one of them. I feel the responsibility for all the crappy software in the world, right? A good IDE, you know, automates away a lot of the tedious aspects of programming in whatever language you're programming in and IntelliJ does that for sure. And you know, a great IDE anticipates your needs. When you really start transforming programs, you realize how much manual activities you have to do because you have to change here and here and here and here and then make sure that you haven't forgotten anything.
So there's like lots of changes and the the larger the system is the more changes. A lot of that work can be done automated. This is very easy. So all we did is just automate all the tedious, very hard work which was clear that it was taking a lot of our time. It's, like, maybe breathing -- like you enlarge a number of things and then you're trying to push them down and consolidate. Actually, IntelliJ was not the first product that we made because we started a bit earlier. We have started releasing kind of precursors to IntelliJ. We used to -- me and my partners -- we used to work for a company, for a different company before.
Yeah. And that was what we've been making there. It was a software company. We were building tools, actually. But then eventually what we realized is that we started turning that product into an IDE. Yeah. So then we decided okay we'll just not do it that way. We will just start fresh -- absolutely fresh. What these guys – Jetbrains – did, they tried to use the front end of the compiler, so the analyzing part, and instead of generating the code, they used the knowledge of the code to support the programmer to do code completion, to do refactorings, to do some code transformations and even code formatting.
It was a really interesting idea for me; I wasn't sure that this will pay off in terms of the financials or security or career or something that wasn't on a scale at all, but then only pure joy of doing something useful. I would say we were in a team uh where everybody wanted to – not to show off but to to really change something. We spent a lot of time in the office. We came mostly each weekend, on Saturday or on Sunday and you would always meet somebody else who is also trying to do something, and the most easiest way to learn was to read code which was written from your colleagues and they wrote good code.
So I tried to make my code more or less indistinguishable from what they wrote. One of the reasons why IntelliJ IDEA is so effective as a tool is because of the dog fooding; is because there's a lot of developers who are using IntelliJ IDEAto create IntelliJ IDEA. For many people this has helped a lot because it makes it very easy to to empathize with the user. Well, if you don't use your product, how can be honest with your users in a blog post on Twitter that your product is the best? The IntelliJ developers are never satisfied.
Nothing's ever, ever enough. People usually hate IntelliJ for its indexing because you have to – when you open the project – you have to wait for a little bit before it's completely ready. And we know that this has been a big pain point for users. So we have been making it possible to use more and more product features while indexing is still running. So it's not just a time where you just have to sit and wait. You can already start working on the project. They were always asking how can we make the experience better? Okay, we can't make it perfect.
Can we make it 98%, can we make it 99%. There are a number of times when I remember feeling like how the heck did it figure out that that's what I wanted it to do? When we were developing IntelliJ IDEA, we always keep in mind the principle of flow and it's a principle when, well, actually it's a condition when you feel the most happy, you're focused, nothing interrupts you and you are dedicated to one specific task. Speed is the most important thing I value in developer tools. There's actually a chemical process in the brain that comes by making changes quickly and seeing that validate quickly.
Right? If you, if you disrupt that, it can be very frustrating. Right? People don't like doing that. There's some people who think about that old, those old days and think that software is no fun. It's a lot of fun if you're moving. You know, you want to focus on your goals – on your path. So similar is here. You don't think about the tool itself. You do your job and your experience becomes kind of seamless and transparent. We kind of forgot what the abbreviation PSI stands for. So I think it's either program structure interface or program source interface.
And I think no one can tell for certain what which of those two it is anymore. But this is the core abstraction that is basically how IntelliJ represents the source code, the different syntactic elements and the connections between them. Those things have been there from the very beginning and they are still there in 2025. Of course, with software like this, which is being developed for 25 years, it is hard to to keep up, right? But it is also inspiring that you find the way. In order to to get somewhere, you have to – it takes time.
Takes time, a lot of effort. When you create the product you love, there will become times when it will be really hard. In the early days, IntelliJ was a minority player. It was pretty much – from the very, very beginning when we started – experiencing different pressure coming from people. Our old employer at some point tried to get us back. They threatened with lawyers. They kind of tried to negotiate. They suggested different collaboration scenarios. They wanted to pay money. They wanted to do some contracts with them. So like all sorts of things. Microsoft tried it.
They were very persistent. They were sending very, very skillful scouts. We had lots of meetings. They took us to some restaurants and then they invited us to Redmond to the headquarters. So first of all we started before Eclipse and then we managed to build some of the user base. Obviously, also, we were paid and Eclipse was sponsored by large companies like IBM and later on the whole bunch of companies also from a commercial perspective, this competition should have been lost. Competing against a free product that's very high quality and moving very quickly is really going to be tough.
Then, as we observed what they were doing in the next few months, we realized that they are very, very quickly adding things to their product that we are doing. We implement a new feature, we discuss it in the community, we implement a new feature, two weeks later they are publishing something like this. We implement something else and they again. So it became clear that they are just chasing us. Yeah. The pressure was more from inside that we wanted to make our idea faster, that it would include more features which would help people, then it would help us to make new features for for our users.
You have to apply consistent force for a long period of time, right? That solves most of the issues – growth issues. Eclipse was number one because it was free and mediocre. Uh, IntelliJ was a commercial tool and it cost money and a lot of developers didn't want to pay money for development tools but the good ones did and they were able to build a business on it that they were able to slowly grow. So we decided that it makes sense to keep trying to compete because we saw the support from existing users and they were kind of a driving force for us to identify our core values for ourselves and then maybe we just were not professional enough in business to understand that this game is about to be lost.
So we just didn't see this coming, and then it turns out that yeah, it wasn't lost. For me, it was clear that usability and the ease of use and then the feelings that people kind of get when they use products that's essential to a good business. The IntelliJ IDEA is really customizable. So, um, you know, you have the opportunity to turn up or turn down almost any of the suggestions, warnings, you know, and things that it offers you. Something that everyone takes for granted now, like the dark UI theme. I think this was, this alone has brought a lot of users to us because we were the first IDE to release a good-quality dark UI theme.
Uh, this was Konstantin Bulenkov's effort. Oh, dark was a very bold move. Back into 2011, there was not a many dark desktop applications. The only one I remember was a Photoshop. But what if we move that experience to code editors, IDEs? I had such an idea and let's try it. it It wasn't a mainstream but I started doing something, so I took some days on my vacation made a prototype and it was a very interesting. So I like the experience and I had a huge support from the community, from people who said "okay, that's nice, even if I thought that was far from the production ready, it was a great moment because I feel the support and why not?
What surprised me of a company of that size is the amount of autonomy a lot of developers had as well. The ability to pick which features they're going to work on, the ability to propose features which are going to make things easier for people. And that's one of the reasons why you end up getting some interesting features because if you have a product owner saying this is what we're going to work on, you don't always catch some of these little features which could just make developers lives a lot easier. Having these opportunities is why I stay for so long because I can always – I never get bored.
I always have something new that I can try. From the very beginning of this, we wanted to build a company. We wanted to build a business. It was not only about the product itself. It was the full business around it. We sell a thin box, basically, no books, nothing, just like, a help file and plus a nice product. We just have to find the price. To the price was, we always thought that it cannot be more than $500. We read it somewhere that this is a consumer ceiling of a consumer product. No one will buy it out of their own pocket even if it's the best tool out there if it costs more than 500.
Back then for many people we decided, 'okay, so we don't have budget for software development tools.' So we need to switch from paid software to open source software. And then the decision was made to to make IntelliJ open source. Unlike Eclipse or some other open source software, we don't have any external funding. We didn't see a need for external capital. If you just can stay lean and grow organically and your business grows together with your company's growth, that's the best choice. So we still had to keep the good revenue stream to make sure that we can develop new versions and feed all of the people in the company.
Right? So the decision was made to split community edition which is open source and ultimate edition. I think that this community edition actually helped us a lot to deal with this tough competition with Eclipse. If we would wait more, we probably would lose this battle completely. Probably it would be better if we would start earlier, but in most cases it would be better if you start earlier. Yeah, you know, everybody I knew was using the paid version, but the open source meant that new people could look at it and try it out and they just fell in love with it as well.
Thanks to having a version like IntelliJ IDEA Community Edition available free of charge to everybody to students alike as seniors, it really decreases the barrier of entry for everyone. You can just download it, check it out. And I believe, especially for newcomers to Java, to the JVM, but also to programming in general, it's a super easy getting started experience. I think the fact that IntelliJ community edition is open source is very much a symbolic thing as well, showcasing how Jet Brains invests into the community, into the software development ecosystem. So developers notice these things, they value those things and in the end they are still open to paying to software, to paying for enterprise features, paid features, even if a core is open source.
So I don't really think that putting something out on an open source license takes away from your business case. It actually expands your business case. I work on an open source project called Quarkus which is a framework comparable to Spring Boot. I'm a senior principal software engineer and I work daily on Quarkus with IntelliJ IDEA and nothing else. Like you said, Red Hat and IBM have a very strong open source culture. That means that when we identify a gap – for example for Quarkus – on the community edition of IntelliJ, we will likely like create an open-source plugin for IntelliJ to help and we have done that right, so regular IntelliJ community edition doesn't come with any Quarkus specific support out of the box but we now have our own plugins that you can, that the users of the community edition can install and get Quarkus-specific support without having to like go the ultimate route which obviously is the is the best solution because the the support is more comprehensive and also open sourcing IntelliJ core allowed for later on to collaborate with Google on Android Studio which made our initial platform even more popular.
One of the most important moment in the history for Jet Brains and especially IntelliJ platform was the moment when Google decided to move its Android development to IntelliJ platform and base Android Studio on top of IntelliJ platform. Yeah. So at the time we were basically building all the Android support for Eclipse. Eclipse was the dominant IDE for Java development. But inside of Google, a lot of the developers working on the Android operating system, they were using IntelliJ because IntelliJ was clearly a better IDE. It just, you know, wasn't as widely known, uh, because it was pretty recently open sourced.
And so, it was this expensive IDE that prodevelopers would choose, but the masses were not. So, we asked ourselves, if this is what engineers inside of Google prefer to use, why are we forcing our users to use Eclipse? Now clearly there were some people who liked Eclipse but you know, we knew that IntelliJ was better and so we thought, 'okay, what would it take for us to basically pivot and build our Android developer tooling on top of IntelliJ?' When I found out that there might be a chance for the Android development to move over to our platform, I was very, of course, I was very keen to help make this happen.
At one point I just basically went to Mountain View for like a week or a week and a half to basically help them get started. So, we got the team together. We started this collaboration in in secret and we called it Project Diamond. And so, that's a little bit of an inside joke that, you know. Basically there's something called the diamond ring effect related to eclipses. So, you know, when the Eclipse is over, you have the diamond ring effects; little pearls as the, you know, the moon shifts away from the sun. So, Project Diamond is what comes after eclipse.
Haha. So that was Project Diamond. So there was like four of them in the room with me and I was just trying to walk them through the initial process of: this is how you build a dedicated IDE on top of IntelliJ. How you set up the build scripts, how you set up the product information, the splash screen, stuff like that. It was kind of like Christmas, you know. One one thing I remember was they had this feature for code folding. So in Java, the way you write inner classes is pretty verbose. You know, you have to 'new' the object and overwrite it.
And Intellij had this nice feature where they would fold that whole, you know, syntax together into a single lambda-like thing. This is code folding for Java. And we realized this is perfect for Android resources. We can basically inline the default strings and show them verbatim in the source file. And that was one of the features we highlighted when we unveiled Android Studio at I/O 6 months later. Seeing the applause when they announced that this was one of the highlights of my career, one of the happiest moments. I think right before the announcement, I was able to ask them to make a last minute change so that they would feature the name of the text powered by IntelliJ platform.
I think it was there because I asked for it to be and this happened like really, two days before the release and they agreed to do that and it was there in the initial release and I think it's still there and I think this is a very important, it's a very important contribution that it's not just them who did it but it's also something that, it's also something that we did together. Feature-wise, what we really gained was just an incredibly powerful IDE and that's what we wanted. I still remember, you know, just the change in editor feature set, right?
Like the really nice inspections and intention actions. My favorite feature they've come up with is this debugger enhancement where while you're debugging, they create these fake comments in your source file that are showing the current value. So when you're looking at your source, you don't have to guess, well, I wonder what that variable is now because IntelliJ helpfully puts a little comment there saying what the value is. Just brilliant there. They have just tons and tons of features like this. It's just a gold mine of of hidden and visible features. We saw it as a great opportunity for us to have some marketing support or Google supports you then it's a totally different play and that was the beginning of very fruitful years long collaboration with Google Android team which later on lead to Kotlin being adopted by Android and many other things.
Mirror was founded around 2011. I wasn't there but I had a discussion with engineers who still work at mirror. They confirmed that IntelliJ IDEA was here from day one. Our primary stack is Java and Kotlin for back-end development and absolutely most of our engineers are using IntelliJ products. I think one of the most meaningful integrations and plugins that we use are Spring-related because almost all of our services are based on Spring boot. Also, we use a lot of refactoring and static analysis tool from IntelliJ IDEA is something that we use quite a lot. It's kind of when you get to the office, you don't think about Wi-Fi, right?
You just open it and it kind of works. Same here. So it you rely on such infrastructure tooling a lot but you don't want to focus on it. Instead you have your problems to solve and I think IntelliJ IDEA was evolving great. I've had the privilege of working with the IntelliJ team and so have other people on the Spring team. We've had a good collaboration, an ongoing collaboration for years now. So I know that the team is very eager to make this the best experience for Spring developers. And so they're always adding new things that support new projects, new frameworks, new ways of working with Spring as we add them.
And so there's already new things being developed. And I just feel like that relationship has led to a place where we are now where everything that we want people to be able to work with, they can pretty quickly. And so I hope that continues. You know, I see no reason to think it won't. If there were moments in particular where you thought, I don't know how we're going to make it through this. Mhm. How do we overcome this? How do we push? Mhm. Yeah. There were multiple points like this when we decided to switch from perpetual license to subscription license.
It was deep in the night. I was testing some clicks or reading through the forum and understanding that, 'God, maybe I have killed this company.' 'And that was specifically because of...?' That was because of a broken promise of being a good guys. Most of the companies do one of the two things. So they roll everything back as it was before or they ignore what they've been told and hoping that it will pass and then everything is going to be fine. We'll just wait it out. So we decided to do differently. So we analyzed the actual patterns when people aren't happy with our offering because we honestly thought that it was beneficial for everyone.
It just turns out that not everyone was properly covered and in the three days we've released an updated offering which for many people looked like, you know, 'oh that you've planned from the very beginning', but if you freeze that then will be [ __ ] storm but now it feels like a step back so it is getting accepted, right. So people thought that it was some kind of orchestrated plan from the very beginning but it wasn't. So it was an honest attempt to to mitigate the damage that we as a company made, the community and many people saw it like this and appreciated the behavior and even more it was appreciated inside the company.
They saw that the company listens and that was like, you know, an ultimate bond– maybe I would say for everyone. The community feedback is crucial for us. Most of the time it's harsh and honest and this is what we like. We we use it to actually understand where our bets were wrong or right and how users feel about our changes. We have created this online community of people who were coming and living through the evolution of this product together. So people knew that when they reach us they reach developers, they don't reach support engineers, level one, level two or something.
So they knew that it's like a direct line to the people who would make change. What I really appreciate is how seriously Jet Brains has taken this and within usually one day you got a very reasonable response. People tried to help you while nobody is asking, "which kind of license you have, subscription, whatever" and for me it was always a referential example of how the support and the community around the brand or product should be built. Yeah. So it's very important for me to help as many people as I can. So, and I found out that if I help software developers, I also help people – other people.
And it's not nice to be in the in this chain of helping other people. "I'm sure we're going to go into AI, but what do you think the future of programming is from an advocate's perspective?" So, I have I have opinions on the future of programming. Yeah. So, my personal take on AI is that – I'm an AI skeptic. So, I enjoy doing myself a lot of the things that people uh use AI for. I only can speculate on the future but I still believe that we are dopamine addicted species and I don't see a future of software development where we don't have humans in the loop.
I don't think the fundamentals change. We still need tooling to be able to understand our code, to navigate our code, to do – I do think one of the things – a specific feature I think is going to be so important is good diff tooling because if an AI writes the code, we want to understand what happened? When did it happen? What's the difference between what it wrote, what I understood before?... These are the kinds of tools which I think an IDE could focus a little bit more on and make it easier for us to work.
This is the unique position because Jet Brains is right in the middle of the most disrupted profession in the world. Yes, it's like super scary and dangerous, but you are in the very middle of the tornado. You have to be close but at a distance. It's like, okay, it's so important for it to be fluid and intuitive and powerful, right? And so that's what I appreciate so much about IntellJ.. It has this mantra of 'develop with pleasure.' I think that's the tagline. And you feel it, right? That it's just it's really a natural flow and it doesn't get in your way.
And I think that's maybe the essence of of IntelliJ and, you know, as we pivot towards AI features – that's the challenge, right? Is to make sure that it retains that there is a great opportunity for IntelliJ to lead this but if you incorporate the new technology, new tools in a framing that's already familiar to people in a place where they are solving their task and problems, then that's the way to go to continue providing a set of tools that is relevant for how people work. So I don't think that our future necessarily relies on like, you know, big, shiny new features or like, big discoveries that, big inventions that we would make.
I think a lot of this is just about being reliable, being performant, being easy to use. But I think with AI we are going to have another approach to this and I have good hopes that it will be successful in the end. But if you try to generate the whole application, then you probably have no idea what is written inside. And at this point, IntelliJ could really help you to find the common mistakes because our inspections are really trained to find mistakes. I think that Jet Brains and IBM will be able to work together in the AI space by bringing IBM specific models to the Jet Brains IDEs and having them working just like they do with Cloud or Open AI or anything else. And again we come back to our values and say like if Jet Brains understands their users.
If Jet Brains can design a great experience of using that, they can listen to what people need. So I see the future of Jet Brains and the future of IntelliJ is not about necessarily adding features to our existing products but transforming into a new reality where the work is done differently. AI was always, always there like IntelliJ – the intelligence part of IntelliJ is intelligence and then and it was, it was not a human intelligence there because it was encoded in the tool so it wasn't artificial intelligence there always. There is a good synergy between between Java's development and the development of a of a tool like IntelliJ.
We get good feedback, you know, from them about the language, about what's working, what's not working, and you know, the existence of the, you know, of a good IDE informs the choices that we make when we're evolving the language. You know, I think of many of the engineers and IntelliJ friends, we have regular meetings and we also share quite a bit of our internal road maps and so on. So we we have a lot of trust and I think we we all realized that this has been, you know, a mutually beneficial collaboration, one that I hope will last many, many more years.
So I'm a big fan of IntelliJ. I can confidently say as, a representative of my team that we love IntelliJ and we hope that the team at Jet Brains will continue to do amazing work for a very long time. "I mean, is there anything that maybe has come to mind in the last days or so or during the interview that you maybe wanted to mention?" Jet Brains, maybe you have such highlights. I don't know. If I could just say one last thing, I want to say thank you very much to the Jet Brains team for for just being a great partner in this process, right?
It's just, it's really important that when you think about the developer experience, you think about the framework and we try and do that. And then also the developer tooling has to be topnotch and they do a great job there. We were kind of a group of friends where everybody helps everybody. Yeah, it was really nice feeling that you always really always have support from your colleagues because they are not only your colleagues but they are your friends and I think having remote developer advocates who come from different countries and come from different cultures also helps kind of spread the message in a way which is more understandable by a broader range of of developers.
I've met many great people while doing this both inside company, outside of the company and I think that I've seen a lot of great examples of how people think. So I've seen great examples of empathy and great examples of creativity and this is hard to over stress how much I enjoyed this time. So for me and for many people who work in this, this is the ultimate testimony of doing something useful in this life. That sounds posh right? But it is true. We were also young and lucky and basically the learning was not always the right one.
Yeah. We've seen many, many times since then how hard it is to create successful companies. And we had this illusion back then because it kind of happened very quickly. We were so successful. We had this illusion that actually building great products and building great companies is an easy thing. You can keep repeating it and actually this was this was a false learning. Yeah. And because we like, in the last 25 years we've seen it, it's it's not the case. Creating companies is extremely hard. Creating good products is extremely hard. Creating good products and good companies at the same time is enormously hard.
Yeah. And then That's the thought I wanted to put in. It didn't answer your question.
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