Celebrate One Year of Laravel Cloud (part 2)

Okay. Hi everyone. Hi everyone. Sorry about that. Um, let me double check my camera or my mic. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, we're like a couple seconds late. Sorry, that was me. Sorry about that, Danny Phantom. But we should be live again now. Welcome back, everybody. Yeah. Hi. Hi. Welcome back. Hi, Roxy. Um, I'm sorry. It is just me right now, which means that the dad joke portion of this little 30 minute segment might be sorely lacking until Josh or Devon or someone jumps back on. No, it was me. That was me. I was a couple seconds late. Yeah. How did everyone enjoy the worldwide meetup part though? Um, I watched some of it while I was like continuing to caffeinate. I know this is not a Coke Zero, but I have a Dr. Pepper Zero now. Um, but when I was like down in my living room, I was still watching the stream. It was so good. Okay, you guys have me. Okay, I expect some help with the dad jokes here. Yeah, it was really great to hear Caleb. When Caleb gives talks, all I can think is like Caleb is so cool. Like, that's all I think the whole time. And I love the idea of Blaze, too. Like, that's really cool. Okay, I think we're we're getting into the dad jokes part. So, I have DJ Brunch said, "Someone tore off the fifth month of my calendar. I'm completely dismayed." That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Let's see. Carl, I expect your help with the dad jokes. I'd like to see a dad joke. Oh, I did. Okay, Carl did say one. After an unsuccessful harvest, why did the farmer decide to try a career in music? Because he had a ton of sick beats. Okay, I leave that one, too. Uh, we're about to start doing some of the giveaways now. So, if you haven't already, make sure that you have signed up uh using the form that is on our um one-year Laravel Cloud landing page. So, if you go to laravel.co, so lrvl.co/1year party, you can go uh it'll take you to that landing page and then you scroll down. actually on stream. So, why don't I screen share? And we got Josh to help with the dad jokes. I'm bringing them up. Hey everyone, we're back. We're back. You're here to save me with the dad jokes cuz I've got none. You got none? Not even one? I feel like you could have like an honorary dad I should have a dad joke and I just like don't I'm blanking on all of them. Okay, I got one. Okay. What did the drummer name his daughters symbols? I don't know. And a one and a two. Oh my god. Okay, that one's good. That one's good. Hey everyone in the chat, how was how's how's it going? How did everyone like the uh Laro World Ride stream? I was asking too. It was so good. I know. I I I got the chance to see a little bit more of Blaze when we were at Wire Live in Buffalo. Um but it's just crazy how how incredible it has been to see like oh like you can ship things or you can build things that are super fast. Yeah. And he said they rewrote it after the demo for Laron US or whatever, right? completely from scratch, I believe. Crazy. Uh, but anyone who hasn't filled out the form, make sure to go to the link I have pinned and this is what the page looks like. If you scroll down, oop, sorry, too far. You will see this form down here. Please fill out this form. You see how I always test my stuff? It's funny I have Florian in here. I think that's from when we did wrapped. Um, but if you fill out this form and hit count me in to submit it, this is how you get entered for the giveaways that we're about to do. A couple giveaways now and then we'll be doing more giveaways later as well. With the giveaways, the people who win, you'll be winning $75 um of credits to use towards swag. Our merch store is currently sold out, but that will be getting um replenished like very soon. And then you'll be able to use those credits for that. And if you fill out this form, you will get cloud credits as well. So, a lot of goodies today. A lot of goodies. I love it. I love it. Uh, we had um a firefighter. Uh, it's funny how uh Carl, you got the joke before. I think you said this before I actually said the punch line. So, congratulations. You are a dad if you didn't know that already. Um, Luigi said, "What did the firefighter name his kids?" Jose and Jose. Jose. I still didn't get to see. I'm bad at dad jokes. I was like, I can't do them. It's funny when you say it. I read it and I laughed already, but then when I said it, Jose and Jose B. Yeah. Or I don't know if that's how you pronounce it, but hose B. But Jose and Hose B was pretty funny. I like it. Cuz at first I was like, hose, like hose A. And I was like, why would you ever name your kid that? And it's like Jose. It's like duh. It sounds the same, but in my head it it did not click. I got another one. A perfectionist walks into a bar. Mhm. Apparently, the bar wasn't set high enough. Oh, that is good. That's a good on different layers. You got Yeah, you got you got you got a couple layers there. You can be unpacking that one for a while. Yeah. Got an onion of a joke. I don't have a joke. You do. You have so many layers. Um Oh, we do need I think Josh has a soundboard, right? Don't we have We We There There There is I don't have the soundboard actually. I probably have it like connected to here, but I know that uh Streamyard also has sound effects, too. So, like they have like the We could we could go into the the whole uh Claws. Yeah. I should I should have it. I technically do have a couple here as well. Deon dad jokes. Josh is professional. He has a daddy a dedicated Oh, that was a dad joke. A dedicated dedicated dad joke. Kim, that's just me not being able to talk. But we can say it's a dad joke. Wait, do you have Well, I think isn't that what your thing says that you have like is it just database? So, you could say you have dedicated wham, too. Dedicated RAM for your database. Dedicated RAM. Oh, man. We we just going full on into dad jokes right now. Oh, yeah. While we're waiting for the the form info to do giveaways. So just like reading through my list here. All right, here's one. Why did the getit commit go to therapy? Why? Too many unresolved conflicts. Mine was thinking of our issues we had yesterday and I was like, "No, that's not the answer to this joke. Here, here. I've got some cricket sounds now, too." What you're going to have to use if I try to do a dad joke. Yeah. Yeah, we got we got that. Or uh There we go. No, it's good. We needed that for Anna one and two. I know. Dang it. Anna one and two. Well, what about if lightning hits an orchestra, who's most likely to get hit? The conductor. Yes, I knew this one. Okay. I was like, who? Dang it. Dang it. My brain's too slow. And it's going to get worse. Like the longer we're on stream, the worse it's going to get of me getting the jokes. It's it's it feels like we have been here for at least a couple days. In a good way. It's like you feel like Laravel Cloud has been here for what, like a good five years now. Laro cloud one year and then uh all of all of our stream has only been here what seven four hours so far. Time is so fake right now. Like it always is to me but especially today. Um I have no clue. Okay, we started at 7 a.m. our time. 9 a.m. ET. Five and a half. Five or four? Four and a half. Yeah, you're right. Math is hard. It's hard. And I major in math. I I have a Coke Zero now, though. I went with the Coke Zero vanilla. And now I actually This is my first drink of the day, which is not a good thing. Some cold brew. Nice. I like People always say I have ADHD for many reasons, but one of them is because I have multiple beverages at all times. So, I have water, a Dr. Pepper Zero. I have tea, which is still Earl Grey from earlier. And I have another optional water bottle in case I don't want to drink from this water bottle. Same. Yeah, it is. If that's a tell, then anyone who has ever been to a restaurant with me would know. There you go. Wait, Leah, that's attention deficient and hydration disorder. Like the H for ADHD, but hydration. That's good. That's a really good one Yeah, at least I have water. At least it's not like three monsters. Whenever we were in San Francisco for an offsite in January, I was like I had two monsters that I was drinking. I can't say that was good for my health. So, I was there. I saw it. Let's see. Okay. I think I'm going to get the giveaway going. I just have to figure out my tabs because I have too many tabs. What a surprise. Okay, so I think we're going to do the giveaway and then we'll find a winner and then we'll do a dad joke and then we'll keep going, keep alternating. Fantastic. And then it's going to be uh Taylor up soon, huh? Yes. Yep. The moment everyone's really been waiting for. You're saying they're not here for us? What does the numbers let never lie. I I know that. No, it's always Taylor. Plus, I feel like talking with Taylor about like Cloud and how it's been out for a year and kind of like getting his perspective on that of that is going to be like really interesting. As well of as well as of course talking about Coke Zero and all the things. I feel like we always talk to Taylor about Yeah, I asked him last time. I I actually the the cool thing that I got to know for those for those in the chat just joining a little bit of uh personal tidbit history on me Josh is I love Taco Bell. Um I found out last stream with Taylor that I did on on the Larbellistk that Taylor is a Taco Bell fan. Has one near his house. Goes and gets a couple bean burritos. There you go. Uh he he he he made it sound like it was like a regular thing like and not like he was like oh it's like one of the fastest things. I was like okay. So I said you know Laravel cloud is technically powered by Taco Bell. Laravel itself was built with Taco Bell. We could call it that unofficially sponsored. You just need your sponsorship. Josh is like trying every angle you can do the marathon found that out. Yes. I was like, "The marathon's in Colorado, I think." And someone shared it in Colorado. Yeah. They tagged Josh and I was like, "I could not do that because I live in Colorado." I was like, "There's no way." Absolutely. I was trying to convince Josh to do it last year. I was like, "We should do this." I I know myself and I know that that would actually be very tough for me. It didn't It didn't seem fun. I'm going to be honest. experience. If I'm running, I'm running from something. So, if you see me running, you better run, too. Um, let's see. Okay, so we got Larel by chance. Devin, get on that. I do have my little thing. Is it? No. Okay, get on. Getting them on to Larl Cloud. Yes. Gotcha. Yeah. First one. here trying to give Josh a sponsorship to from Taco Bell. Please uh please find my email. Christopher Ray. So if your name is Christopher Ray, you are our first raffle winner or giveaway winner. Yay. That's so enthusiastic. Nice job, Christopher. Right. You did it. You did it. You get $75 to spend on Laravel merch. I was That gets you far in Larville merch. I was going to say I thought I thought you were going to say Laravel cloud credits. I was like that's that gets that gets you far too. Lar merch far too. Yeah. For the for the swag store um people who fill out the form will be getting cloud credits. But for the giveaways, we are giving away um $75 for the merch store. Fantastic. That's at shop.larville.com, correct? Yes. shop.larville.com. They have a They have a little uh baby onesie that I just got for my baby. Oh, yeah. That's so cute. It's Laravel New, right? What? It says Laravel New. Yeah. Laravel new. and uh the let's see. Oh, and do we have a dad joke to alternate before we do another giveaway? Yeah, Deon, you got one. and Samantha from Laravel also just wanted me to let people know that things so if you get the Laravel stock um or if you get the Laravel shop credits like the $75 in credits or if you or or you're looking to get Laravel merch swag things are showing it's out of stock right now but there'll be more in the next like one to two weeks so hold on to it wait for things to get in stock there's some fun stuff I think everything will be in stock in the next one to two weeks and we're restocking everything that's on the store, right? So, they could still go on it and like kind of look at what they would want to get whenever it restocks, I believe. So, we'll share the link just for when it's restocked. Great. All right. You ready for this one, Josh? Let's hear it. There are 10 types of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't. I like that one a lot. I like it a lot. That was a good one. All of All of All of those are like similar to Jonno Nolan's uh obscure AI reference. Like you you have to know it, but if you know it, then you know it. You know, his AI reference was so funny to me cuz it's like so AI pill, you know? It's like he talks about using AI and so you can be like okay he uses AI but then he makes a reference like that and you're like okay you use AI like you're like oh yeah you do cuz I could he said it and I'm just like yeah but I'm like I would never like think of that reference you know just cuz I don't use AI enough. Uh, okay. And then our next giveaway winner is Christina Ellen. It's so hype. So excited. Oh my god. You got to get you gotta get a drum roll sound effect in there, too, man. That's what I don't I don't think I have one. I know that Streamyard has one. I do not have one on my little thing. I think looks like they have little uh Oh, that's fun. That's a good one. That's a good one right there. Christina Ellen there. Typing's hard, so I forgot the space, but Christina Ellen, that's also for uh $75 at the Laravel merch store. Yes. All of these are $75 at the merch store. Let's see. Carl said, "Uh, what did Yoda say when he saw himself in 4K?" HDMI. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Okay. Uh, TRPWR official, will there be some hoodies with the next restock? I do not know the answer to that question. I think everything that is in the store currently will be restocked. I don't know if there's anything new that's coming to the store specifically. But if you would like hoodies, keep asking and we'll we'll keep mentioning it and hopefully get hoodies in the merch store eventually. I think hoodies would be really cool. I joined a call the other day and I was the only person who didn't have a Larbell hoodie. I was very upset. Oh, really? Like did they have the gray ones or uh Yeah, they had the gray ones and then one person had one of the OG OG black ones. Oh yeah, I don't have those either. I just have the jacket that we gave away at Larcon US or we didn't give away but it was for speakers and staff. Yep. I have my jacket super excited to get patches put on it because I did not have it in Australia. the Laracon patch. I'm sad I missed out on the India one because that patch was really really cool. Oh, that was a really, really, really cool one. Yes. Mhm. I'm excited to see the EU one though. I haven't seen that one. I got my Australia one right here so it can go on my jacket as well. That's really cool. Let's see. Okay. I feel like I'm so slow at getting these giveaway winners. Sorry, friends. Okay, one more. Okay, we have Dave Mclofflin. I think that's how you'd say it. And again, this is for $75 on the merch I think we need the super enthusiasm again. Dave Mclofflin, I keep forgetting to put his face. I'm so sorry. I love that so much. Well done, Dave. You did it. If you are still watching, thank you. And if not, we're going to email you. Like, so if you are winning, you will be getting an email later. um I think today, if not today, then tomorrow, you'll be receiving an email to tell you about the $75 of credits for the Laravel uh merch store that you just won. And then also should mention what Josh just mentioned about things being out of stock currently, but they are being restocked very soon. Do we have more dad jokes? I've got another dad joke. I'm ready. locked in. So, I asked my friend Sam to sing a song about the iPhone and then Samsung. Another good one. How come Samsung? But we can't get any of our speakers to sing. I know. We We We still haven't been able to sing Happy Birthday. I think I think it's it's going to be Taylor's task. If if not, we'll make an an AI bot to say. Oh, that's another good idea. So Josh and I are talking in between. We should ask one. We should have done that for Florian, but Josh and I are talking. We want to code something with AI during the stream. I think that'll be during our one where we're showing off spell and we could show I mean we could either do a dad joke one or we could um we could get a bot to sing happy birthday for us. We have Sam here too. Let's bring Sam up. Damn. Hello. Hello. Yeah, we made the Are you going to sing for us? I mean, you don't want that. The funny thing is you can't like have us all sing together and it be less awkward because then it's like then it sounds horrible too because latency and all that. Yeah, especially online. Yeah. I love the surfboard, Sam. Yeah. I just moved so I've got tape on the walls so I don't have as good of background as y'all, but we're working on it. When when you sit there, you kind of hide the tape so you can barely you can't even see it. I'm kind of standing straight. You can't see it. Sam, for those who don't know who you are on the stream, what do you what do you do at Laravel? Are are you at Laravel? Um, yeah, I do marketing at Laravel and specifically Laracon. So, I've been to all the Laracons in the last year and a half. Um, and yeah, I help organize Laracon US specifically and actually Laravel Live Japan coming up here in May. So, yeah, that one's going to be a blast. I won't ask you to tell who your favorite kid is because if I asked you like what's your favorite Laracon is, that's like asking like who your favorite kid. But what's like your top memorable Laracon moments? Ooh. Well, as just as a whole, Laracon US was really special just cuz we to we we put a lot of work into that one. So, seeing it come to life, just like walking into Mission Ballroom where we had it last year, seeing all the cubes hanging and all the people in there, that was really special. Um but probably the most memorable moment was when I went and did the garba on stage at Laracon India. Um yeah, Velle had us come up on stage and dance in front of everyone. It was crazy. So that's awesome. Is there a recording of that anywhere? I hope not. We'll have to ask him next time. It's like Vish somewhere has it. I mean had like a phone pointed at us. Leave that perspective somewhere. Well, what's the what's the next upcoming either new Laracon stuff or big you talked about Laravel Live Japan. What what's what should people be looking out for in the next week plus? Yeah, lots lots of good stuff coming like speaker announcements, who will be there sponsoring and things and um at every Laracon or Laravel Live, there's also a lot of side events that go on. So, we'll be we'll be posting about those. We want the community to come hang out. It's a great time to meet people. So, yeah, definitely just stay, you know, stay on Twitter, keep keep looking and what's what's updated. But yeah, the next big event that we're doing is Laravel Live Japan. Um, if you have been wanting to go to Japan for forever, this is your excuse to come. Um, there's going to be a lot of awesome people there. Lots of fun content and events going on. So, definitely that Laracon US is going to be epic this year. I went and visited the venue like three weeks ago. It was 3° outside, so it was freezing. But in the summer it will be very nice and warm and it's such a cool venue. We have a lot of cool side events we're planning. We haven't told the world what we're doing yet. But anyway, yeah, stay tuned on Twitter. We'll we'll give you some updates. And and where's Laracon US at this year? Oh, yeah. I didn't even say it's in Boston, Massachusetts. So awesome. I actually have not been to Boston. To my recollection, I have not been to Boston. So I'm excited for that. I haven't either. It's awesome. I feel like I've driven through it. And you've probably been a lot, right? All the time. Yeah. You're like, "It's my backyard, so good." Hour and a half south of it. So, Friday, my connecting flight for Amsterdam is in Boston, which hopefully there's no issues there with all the snow. Uh fingers crossed because they're getting a lot of snow. We're not getting like any snow in Colorado, but the East Coast has been getting it this winter. Oh, yeah. It was it was rough today driving with a blizzard yesterday. It was up to up to my knee in most places. That's exactly why I love living where I live and not having to do that. Be perfect in you. Yeah. I just I came on to tell people to come come meet me at these events. I want to meet you. when they when they meet you, what's like a fun thing that they can either tell you or share so that they know that they saw it here on the one-year Laravel cloud? Tell me tell me that you want a Laravel hoodie and let's see if we can get that on the shop. Oh, okay. Yes, there you go. How you know Sam was listening into the stream. Yeah. If I if we hear it enough, it's gonna happen. So, okay. I'll tell every hoodies hoodies hoodies hoodie. So, do you call a hoodie the zip up is that still a hoodie or is a hoodie like sweatshirt? Like what's the difference? It's a great question because also in the UK there's jumpers too, which yeah, I don't don't know what's what. But hoodie hoodie to me is not the zip. Okay, I would agree with that. Yeah, that's a jacket. But then you do have the half zip zip. The half zip is still somewhat a hoodie. Like the one you pull over but you can zip part of it. I think that's still a hoodie to me. Sorry. There's too many options. I think I think that one's referred to as a quarter zip. No. Yeah, I think so. Jumper. I say Yeah. Is Is that Is that what it is? The jumper? I have no idea, but that makes sense. I I would make I would bet on that if that was the jumper. Those in the UK, you can criticize us all all right now. Yeah, please. Yeah, please school us. But thank you so much, Sam, for coming on to talk about Thank you, Sam. Laravel Live Japan and Laracon US. And the hoodies hopefully. Yes. Talk to me and Yeah. See you at a Laravel Live or Laracon. See you guys. See you Sam. See you. And then we also have Taylor here to come on for a kind of fireside chat and talk about the one-year anniversary. So, let's go ahead and bring Taylor up. Sorry, Josh at the same time. Probably. Bring him in. Kick him out. What's up? What's up? Can you'all hear me? we can hear you. Great. We'll do the We'll do the applause right there. So, Oh, wow. Thanks. Thanks for the warm welcome. fun. How's it going so far? Good. It has been going great. It's crazy that it has been a year of Laravel Cloud. Like, does it feel to you Taylor like it has been a year? Does it feel longer for sure? It feels longer because like you know there was such a process of building cloud up to the launch and just like I mean building the team to even build cloud than building cloud itself. um and you know like so many people that contributed and helped along the way and uh yeah so it it is crazy that it's only been one year but um you know for me it's a little bit more like two to be honest uh because there was that whole year leading up to it building it building the team. Yeah, we we were saying that it is it it's there was a lot of other stuff that launched a year ago today like kind of with cloud. It was like the Laravel launch day, but this was like officially the first birthday of Laravel Cloud, but we haven't actually gotten to sing happy birthday yet. So, we were wondering if you could Oh, yeah. Yeah, I guess we could. I'm not a very good singer, but I can kick it off, I guess. Okay, I'm down everyone. Taylor's doing it. So, uh, you comment in the chat as well, and then we'll we'll all sing half on Q together. All right, I guess I'll lead off. Uh, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Cloud. Happy birthday to you. I couldn't stop laughing. That was so good. That's funny. It's funny. If you tried to get Joe to sing it, he wouldn't do it. I know no one would, but we literally asked everyone to do it. You were the first one to actually say yes. I thought you were going to say no, too. So, that's crazy. Yeah, it's pretty wild viral. You know, I'm getting ready for um I'm getting ready for Lar EU as I'm sure like a lot of us are. And um I logged back into like my Laravel cloud test account like I have a test or for just like demoing things. And I logged into one of the orgs. It's called like ship PHP. And my last deploy was actually like about this time last year. I think it was actually a few days before uh where I was, you know, doing the Laracon EU thing and it was right before the cloud launch. So it was kind of nostalgic to log back in there and see, you know, last deploy one year ago um as I was demoing things and uh yeah, getting ready to be back in there a little bit I guess uh next week. That's crazy. What is the what is one of the things that when you like let's say a year ago you're deploying today. What's like the thing that you wouldn't have expected happened within Laravel Cloud a year ago, but it did? Oh gosh, you know, like the the product has honestly come a long way in in the last year. Um, I mean, for example, like we launched without even having my SQL support. Um, we have my SQL in addition to the serverless Postgress. We now have both, you know, Upstus and our own Laravel Valky. We have Laravel reverb in there. We've got Nightw Watch integration. Um, you know, I think like if I had to identify something that sort of surprised me, it's just sort of like the scale of some of the customers we brought on in the first year. I thought it would take time for like and I I I'm sure it will be like a multi-year process of like building trust to get larger customers bringing pretty significant deployments on the cloud, but that's actually already been a thing that's, you know, happening and ongoing, which, you know, Devon knows about. Um, and it's cool to see like people trust the platform when it's, you know, relatively new, you know, like a lot of other existing platforms have been out there for a long time. People have been self-hosting for a long time. So to like put your trust in Laravel cloud, you know, I think we've tried to do a really good job with it is something that I'm really like proud of. Um that we've been able to win some of that and I think we'll keep building on that, you know, over this year and years to come. That's awesome. Uh Taylor, we've been doing dad jokes all all morning uh on on stream. What's your favorite dad joke? Do you have one for us? I don't know. I don't tell a lot of dad jokes. Um off easily for you. No, although I am turning 40 this year, so like I probably need to brush up on my dad jokes. Um, I don't I don't know. I guess I've uh I don't know what is a good dad joke that I would say I don't know. One thing I do that is kind of corny is like I don't know if this qualifies as a dad joke, but anytime my kids are like, "Oh, this is going to take like a million years or whatever," I'll just like be like, "Wow, that's a really long time, actually. That's really s That's That's surprising. I didn't expect it to take that long. And they're just like eye roll. But uh I like to be very literal about their uh time estimates and give them a hard time about it. But yeah, I don't I don't think it's a typical dad I think it counts. That counts. Yeah, it's a very dad thing to do. Probably either e either dad thing or like that's a very like AI thing to do right now. And it's like, hey, this feature we estimate this like the next five to six weeks. This your timeline. It's like no, you're doing this right now. This afternoon. Does the TA and Taylor stand for Taco Bell? Cuz Josh mentioned he got you to say you like Taco Bell last. Yeah. Well, you didn't get me to He didn't have to force me to say it. I do like it. But then I think it came up last stream because I was telling Josh I can't remember if this was on stream or like off camera that uh there's actually a Taco Bell like right outside my neighborhood. I mean like literally pretty much across the street. Um so I can get there and have two bean burritos and get home like oh man it would be so fast. It like 5 10 minutes I'm in and out. So, it is a pretty like frequent stop for me at this point. Um, and they're starting to actually learn who I am to be honest. That's the that's that's the that's the win right there when when you can say like give me the usual at. Yeah. Yeah. Although they were kind of confused the other day because like I think I dropped this in the chat, but you know we were we were celebrating some like Laravel cloud win or milestone or something in our like Laravel Slack and um someone dropped sort of like the Kobe Bryant jobs not finished or jobs not done GIF or emoji and I was like oh yeah I love that like clip of Kobe when he says that. So like I said I'm going to embrace being Kobe today. So when I went to Taco Bell I always order on the kiosk where I had key and myself stuff and put in a name. If I put in my name, it's like Kobe B, you know, that's the that's my name. So when they called out my order and they saw me come up to the stand, they just like looked at me kind of weird like, "Why are you putting your name in as Kobe B?" But I didn't even explain it. I just took my food and sat back down. That's awesome. That's awesome. I think you're living Josh's dream being that close to Taco Bell, though. That is my my Taco Bell is around like I have to get out of my neighborhood to do it, but the close. So I I can get there and back in like 20 minutes, not 10 minutes, though. 20 minutes I can get there and back. Still better than me, man. It's about a half hour round trip for me. Oh. Oh, wow. Brutal. Brutal. Uh yeah. So Taylor just confirmed that it's GIF and not GIF. There we go. Oh yeah. GIF or GIF. I usually say GIF if I'm just saying it. Yeah, if I'm just saying it to someone. What if What's the real pronunciation? Didn't the guy settle that? Whoever made I think he did, but I always forget which one he said. I think he says I think he says GIF. Yeah. Okay. It's kind of like the time that uh Hasbro posted there is no such thing as stacking uh uh take twos and uno and then somebody's like obviously you haven't read the rules. That's funny. Yeah, I'm never not stacking. Like you have to stack them. Yeah, if someone confirmed the creator did say GIF, but everyone else says it's G. So, who knows? Who knows what it is? Who knows? Just like everyone, Taylor, I'm sure you get everyone mispronounces Laravel from the getgo. Have you just not stopped correcting people at that point? You're like, I never really correct people. I mean, you can always just sort of like awkwardly slip it in conversation if someone mispronounces it like, "Oh, yeah, that's cool that you like Laravel." you know, if they like weird. Um, but you know, people I still get asked about it a lot to be honest, like how do I say it or how to, you know, how should it be said? I think there's like probably like a couple pronunciations I would consider correct. Like obviously Laravel is how I say it. I don't really mind if people say like Laravel with like, you know, kind of a l sound on the front. Um, laring Laravel. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what other I don't know what other pronunciations I've heard. I don't think I've heard anything like laral, like a larva. Yeah, I think Chris Fidal Chris Fidal kind of makes fun of that. Um I've never heard anyone say like anything really crazy like laravvel or something wild, but I think I have. I think I've heard I've definitely heard some interesting ones. Yeah, my family does, but they don't know anything about tech, so they could even say like lava. Like they have no clue. They just I've actually heard that one. Yeah, Lavarell before. I've gotten that one before. I also hear the pronunciation of the so Laravel. I've heard that. Yeah, I've heard that too. Like that's it's been a crazy journey building Laravel, you know, like as part of Laranu. Um there's actually there's actually some people working on kind of a PHP documentary. I don't know if they've been very public about it yet, but I don't know if people remember like the Laravel documentary and there was like a Vue documentary. uh kind of the same crew of people are doing like a PHP documentary. I can't remember what anniversary it's for. I can't remember if it's like 25 years of PHP or something else, but it had it had me thinking about like just PHP and Laravel in general this morning and like what a wild journey it's been and like you know the ups and downs that PHP has had over the years and kind of the cool people that I've worked with and the and the uh the cool tools that are sort of come and gone and uh it's been a pretty fun journey and I'm actually really excited for like anyway it got me thinking about like the road ahead and like I sort of feel like sort of like the AI agentic age is like an opportunity for almost like a another PHP renaissance where like you know it's just a great stack for getting stuff done and you know we've talked about that just sort of like the convention over configuration stuff of Laravel and batteries included frameworks it's sort of like another interesting moment I think in PHP and Laravel's history no that earlier too yeah he's been loving some Laravel lately not too shabby for a dead language huh Yeah, I know. Yeah, it just keeps on ticking for sure. Did you expect like let's say five years ago that this would be where where it's at today? Oh my gosh, no. Um, and like I've said before, like you know, when I used to tweet like every so often about like, hey, what should I improve in Laravel or like what would you like to see? Just to sort of just gather feedback from the community, it was literally always a joke and people would respond with like, can it build my app for me? Can it just like write the code for me? M and it's just like that is like literally real now which is so like mindbending. I mean obviously Laravel is not the one doing that. It's like the AI models but just like the fact that we are living in that reality in a very real sense where like we're getting to the point where writing significant amounts of code by hand feels actually painful. Um no I I really could not have dreamed it even 5 years ago you know. Um, and even just a couple years ago when like sort of Chai GBT, I mean I think Chad GBT just released in like 2023. Um, even when it first came out was kind of first writing code, it it felt like cool and a little bit of like a novelty and you know like interesting I guess as sort of a a proof of concept. But now to be at a place where it's like a very significant part I think of a lot of developers workflows, maybe even most developers workflows is is pretty crazy. And it's been also crazy to watch sort of like even the transition within AI development from like you know sort of like the novelty era to oh that's neat but it will never really do anything serious to like sort of like I would say almost like the tab era of like the cursor tab to complete which felt like sort of its own little era and now to just sort of like the editor becoming a relatively maybe minor part of the stack of like coding you know it's like this very fast transition that's that's crazy but also exciting. Mhm. How do you think with AI like how do you think that has helped with cloud or like impacted cloud's growth? I mean, I think and I would like to believe and hope that I mean, I do believe that probably more software than ever will be created in 2026 than probably the past few years combined just because it's so much easier to write. You know, like code was so slow and so expensive to create that trying things or working on side quests or ideas was like legitimately expensive to your own time, maybe to the company's time. Um, so like you know side projects were notoriously left unfinished, right? Or projects were kicked down the backlog or um it was just there was no time in the schedule to go try to proof of concept something if it was going to take 3 weeks. Whereas now like you could proof of concept something maybe in 2 days that otherwise would have taken 2 or 3 weeks of time and things get like a lot more interesting. And that code has to run somewhere and it has to be deployed somewhere. Um and you know we would obviously love it to be with Laravel and on Laravel cloud. And I think we just will see an expansion. Um even if we sort of let's just kind of disregard the fact that a lot more people might come into the Laravel ecosystem but just the Laravel ecosystem that exists historically. I think those developers and those companies are going to write more code. So, we're going to see expansion there in the number of things that they're deploying, the number of, you know, like stuff they're putting out there on the web, even just internal tools that they're writing at their own company. Um, I think there's going to be an increase of that because it's just faster to do. It's less expensive to write that code. I think there will also be like, um, you know, and I'm going to talk about this a little bit at Laracon EU, just sort of how I see this. I think there will be a big influx of just new developers. You know, even at Laravel, we have people that are not on the software engineering team um proper that are writing code. So, these are people that are in sales, they're in marketing, they're not traditionally software developers. And when I say writing code, I don't mean like vibe coding. I mean like they have like well it is a flavor of vibe coding, I guess, but they're not using a tool like lovable, right? like they have like claude code on their laptop and they have a code editor on their laptop and they're like using real developer tools to write and ship code on the cloud. So I think there will be an influx of that and I think that's where we actually have a big opportunity but also a big challenge in front of us where um I was telling someone the other day you know historically I think I have viewed Laravel as having a low barrier to entry but the bar where that needs to be now is a lot different than where it was preai. So like for example if you go to the larva.com installation page and it starts talking about composer and herd and docker and npm it can be overwhelming fast whereas like a few years ago we might have think like well that's just sort of like the cost of software development you got to know about this stuff you know what I mean um whereas now like I don't feel like we can make the same assumptions or at least not if we want to like if we want Laravel to be a landing place for sort of like the next generation of software tinkerers I think our assumptions have to be a little bit different. We have to on-ramp them a little bit more like gracefully. We have to onboard them more in a you know a way that is friendly towards people that haven't traditionally been developers. And I think you know in years past it was easy to say like if you don't know about composer like that's just sort of like barrier to entry to Laravel like you just got to know what that is. Um but you know I I think like it's made me rethink like the whole installation docs the whole onboarding experience of Laravel how we get people started also like kind of how we reveal complexity you know like I think it's made me think a lot about you know Laravel has always prided itself about how we have like a tool for sort of every solution right we have like Laravel scout we have Laravel Horizon we have Laravel telescope that can also be overwhelming so I think also just like tweaking or onboarding so that those tools are there when you're like ready for them. Um, and I think Evanu with like Vue.js has done a really great job of like revealing complexity gradually in that ecosystem as well. It was what drew me to it originally, but we have to do that as well where we bring people on to the sort of like minimal tool set that is very very productive and they can expand out from there like naturally. Anyway, sorry for that little rant. I feel like I've been talking for No, it was good. It was really good. Very insightful. Yeah, I think well the the question that I have with you for that is like how do you think that has shaped then of and we could talk about like even AI specifically but how has the last year even shaped of what your goal is for Laravel like how has the last year of cloud shaped even your goal for Laravel moving forward whether that's the cloud whether that's AI I imagine if we asked you a year ago like okay what's the next year look like? It would probably be a completely different answer than now. Yeah. Yeah. It it has changed. I mean, some things have changed and some things haven't changed. I think I think um you know, we're always going to be thinking about how do we serve sort of like let's say our core historical audience of Laravel developers and there's a certain set of features and like functionality we want to provide to them that's just you know they will expect and they want to see. I think what it what has changed is just like the user profile of who is going to be deploying to cloud in my mind has shifted throughout 2025 and throughout the first year and because of what I just said where I would if you would have asked me this time last year who's going to be using cloud I would have had like a profile in mind of like people like us on this call right people that are techsavvy they're familiar with building Laravel applications they sort of know about infrastructure structure and even you know like a Q worker if you tell them oh you need a Q worker instance for this like they kind of have an idea what that is whereas now like if we want cloud to be as you know successful and powerful and great for developers as it could possibly be I think the user profile in my mind has shifted a little a little bit which might in turn affect like how we present certain things in cloud and I think it's it goes back to sort of how we reveal complexity right like how do we get people on board with the setup they need in terms of like web and workers and scheduler in a way that feels natural and intuitive and is not overwhelming. Um, I think the canvas on in cloud is actually a really great start to that and is a great sort of like foundational piece of like it's this very visual representation of what's going on. And I think we can continue to build on that in a way that is sort of like friendly and welcoming to non-developers as well. And it may require it may require like more a little bit more explanation or handholding or like crafting a happy path to how things should be deployed than maybe what it is today. But um anyway, that that's just part of kind of like what has shifted in my mind is just the potential audience for people that might use cloud is actually significantly bigger, which is great. Like I think there's a lot more potential customers on cloud in my mind than there was a year ago. And I already thought there was like a lot of people that would be interested in cloud, but there's like way more now potentially. And we just have to do I think that's the challenge ahead of us is doing a really good job making cloud accessible to those people. Yeah, that's awesome. I think the part without losing sight of our core community, right? Like yeah, without losing that, right? I was going to say I think that the part you called out about the canvas is really uh impactful because even people who do understand really technical concepts, being able to see like a topography or a visual representation of that helps to get some of the questions out really quickly and whatnot. I think for both non-technical and technical folks, the canvas is really just revolutionary in the way that you communicate how systems are created and intertwined. I can talk to that a little bit about when I first started building with Laravel and thankfully like when I first started building with Laravel, it's funny because I have not known Laravel before AI. So, I've only known it since GPT 3.5 or maybe it was even like GPT 2.5 or whatever that was initially in like But I knew how to build it locally and I knew all the things like cues that happened locally. I knew the things that like uh schedulers that happened locally. But when it came to time to deploy it, that's why I always opted for Laravel Vapor for example because I had this one document. It was vapor.l ML file that said okay I have a QRunner so my cues are running I have you know um I have this much of a instance dedicated to this particular worker and like I the the server aspect didn't blend well with my mind initially because I was like I don't I don't know how all this works together I just want what's happening on my local machine to be what is happening in production and so it when when cloud launched it was this thing of like oh like if I had this when I first started building with Laravel things would have shifted differently in terms of how I was putting things into production because it it is hey here's all the things that I know that my application needs and it just works for it. It I'm curious how AI shapes this as well because like I think you'll always obviously be able to go into cloud and sort of configure things and add workers and add replicas and all that but let's say you're building with cloud code or open code. Um, I think we're working towards a future where, okay, you push to cloud or it adds a feature in your Laravel app that uses reverb. Let's say it uses websockets and you push that and cloud code knows your app is on cloud and it says, "Hey, we just added a reverb feature for this to work on cloud. I need to attach like a reverb uh server to your application. Do you want me to do that?" Yes. Okay. It uses a cloud API. It's done. Boom. you know, you can just like sort of chat through deploying on cloud as well, which I think will be really interesting and and something we'll probably, you know, work towards really in the next month or so. Um, you know, I think Florian tweeted something the other day. He has this open claw like manipulating cloud. Uh, just the workflows of how people interact with not only cloud but all sorts of tools I think is really changing and shifting in uh in really cool ways. Yeah, Florine was on earlier and I think he showed off that then like he had his open claw bot and he had it like deploy to cloud and do all that using the cloud API and I think once cuz it's in what developer preview right now the API is launching I think I put in our Slack let's launch that this week. Yeah, it is in developer preview but it should be GA this week and um which is you know in time for Laron because I need to show some stuff at Laracon that depends on the API and we got to get that in G. Well, that means everyone can have their open claw bots using the cloud API coming this week then. Yeah, pretty pretty cool stuff. I already have some like uh app ideas for for for for the API specifically where I'm like ah it'd be so much quicker to just be able to spin this up really quick. So, I I I'm excited for that. I actually haven't gotten to play around with it too much while it's a developer preview. Yeah, it's really pretty fullfeatured. I mean, you can do a lot of stuff with the cloud API. almost really most things that you can do in the UI you can do via the API. Uh Taylor, when you think back to like a year ago when it comes to uh Laravel Cloud, how do you think what's the what's um what's something that's changed how you use Laravel Cloud like in your personal workflow or just in like team workflow that exists now that didn't exist a year ago? like how has your work at Laravel changed because of Laravel cloud would be a better way to say it. Oh gosh. I mean definitely the preview environments. Um I would say it's sort of like the number one most like practical thing that I just interact with on a daily basis. It feels like where especially on a lot of our kind of more like let's say marketing oriented pages like laravel.com or cloud.lar.com larva.com where we're making changes, you know, pretty frequently and just having that preview environment URL right in the GitHub comments or right there in Slack is just like so nice just to be able to go out there once the PR's merged everything gets torn down and the thing I love about Laravel cloud preview deployments is you know um they're full stack I mean kind of like Laravel um so they handle the database they handle the cache and that's I just appreciate like how well thought out they are throughout the entire stack. Um, and I think that's just like a hard thing to get right. It's a hard thing to get right just from like the assumptions you make and the infrastructure. And you know, to me it just makes it feel so much more valuable. It makes it feel so much more like real world. Um, I think it's easy just to like clone a preview environment for a static website, but when you talk start talking about like actual databases and like do you want to use the same database? Do you want a new database? Do you want a new sort of like schema within that existing database? There's all sorts of things you can do and Lar Cloud Search lets you take any of those paths. Um, but I I think that's just super cool and probably the piece I interact with like the most that's really changed like my workflow. Um, the other thing I do is like any new side project idea I have almost like right after I Laravel knew it locally, I put it on cloud and I just turn on hibernation on the compute and on the database. So I just like have a cloud URL that's like out there all the time in case I want to share it with someone to go take a look at it. It's just like ready and available. Um, we're going to be making that quite a bit easier actually just to like spin up a new Laravel app locally and ship it to cloud immediately. Um, so I'll demo some of that next week. But that those are kind of two things that come to mind is just sort of preview environments and then just sort of like I've just been clouding by default for new Laravel apps and just turning on hibernation. That's awesome. Yeah. Like I I feel like uh it's always fun to see even like internally but then the stuff that you share externally of like like the avatars project for cloud and recently like the uh the audio one. I forget what was the Yeah, the radio radio. wear that clothes. Yeah, it's stuff like that that you know you probably I I I I would imagine I could be completely wrong, but I would imagine you know a year two years ago even if you spun that up like you probably been like this is just something fun for me and you might not have like actually been releasing it because of how easy it is like with AI with Laravel cloud that kind of thing. Yeah, I mean both of those projects actually were just entirely AI coded, you know, with Laravel and and Open Code. Um, so I probably wouldn't have created them at all, you know, just and I think that's just the crazy thing about AI is I I feel like I've done so many things that just wouldn't have made sense like they wouldn't have made sense in terms of the time required or just like to figure them out when I could be doing other things. But if I can fire up a new Laravel app and fire up an AI agent and just build it in like 5 minutes. Um, and I think that's just another, you know, that's just an example of those are two things that would probably have never been shipped to cloud or deployed to the internet that exists because of AI. And I think there'll be a lot more of that. I think so too. And like you were mentioning earlier about like people internally spinning up apps with it. Like I know a lot of our marketing team is and hearing like Cynthia even talk about I think she's talking about Andrew about it. She's like no you can't you have to get off of using an IDE. It's like CLI is where where it's at. Like hearing people who like aren't traditionally developers talk about stuff like that is so cool to see. Yeah. I'm actually having lunch with a college friend tomorrow because he messaged me and said, "Hey, I've been sort of vibe coding using like graphical app builders, you know, things like Replet and Lovable and I'm kind of like hitting the limits of what I can achieve on these platforms and it's like getting to be tough. Um, but he's pretty far along on this app idea and he wants to learn like how to actually do like real Laravel development locally and deploy it to something like cloud cuz you just have like a little bit more power, a little bit more options. So, I mean, yeah, it just seems to be happening like all around. And I've got multiple actually just like local friends that are not developers that are like actually becoming developers um because of all of this stuff. It's really crazy to see. That's really cool. Like makes me excited because I feel like we're going to see more of like a boom of developers like on social media too due to that. Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. I think it's going to be a huge boom. I mean like I I don't know. I don't really relate to sort of like AI doomerism around like software. I think it's just like if anything it's about to get like way way way way bigger. Mhm. Um I think the senior developers, you know, like those of us that have been around sort of preai are going to have like an important role to play in sort of like onboarding these people, educating, you know, about um you know, how to build software, how to architect software, what different things mean. Um so it's going to be an exciting time. Yeah, I think even security risk, it's like what what to look out for and do. I think that was a big thing with like open call. Some people are like, "What about the security aspects?" Yeah. Yeah. It is like I feel like AI um is sort of like in some ways leveling the playing field of software a little bit where it's just like instead of being like a battlefield of uh technical expertise. It's becoming like more of a battlefield of ideas and sort of execution and the code and the technical expertise is becoming like slightly less relevant although still still relevant but um you know less so than it was before and it's like I don't know I think it's kind of interesting and at first I was worried about that because it was like I had always sort of like tied my identity to like I mean it's literally like in the tagline of Laravel like the framework for web artisans right for handcrafting code and um so at first like especially over like Christmas break during the holidays when everything was just felt like it was blowing up around like agentic engineering everyone was trying it cuz they're kind of like off for the holidays people are tweeting like crazy about you know wild experiments they're doing I didn't know what to think at first but then like the more I used it and I was using it for like an hour at a time then a few hours at a time and soon it like felt painful to handw write code and I realized like I was actually having way more fun than ever just like quickly iterating on ideas and like just realizing that was actually always the part I enjoyed. Um it was never like you know typing dollar signs and arrows and parentheses and curly braces and tracking down missing semicolons. Like that was never like the fun part even though some part of me like thought it was. Um, and I'm also finding just like I still have a rewarding role to play on like architecting and shaping AI assisted generated code. Like most of the time I have AI spike out code. I'm still like kind of architecting that. I'm still steering it. I'm still ensuring that like it's not like repeating itself. It's not putting bad patterns in place. It's not doing something that I just know is not going to be scalable. um either architecturally or just like performance-wise or whatever. Um so I I've just found it actually just actually a much more enjoyable way to work to be honest. So I'm like having more fun with developing than I think I have in the past few years. That's crazy. That's crazy to think about, especially from someone like you, you know, who who has been developing and like, you know, you you you mentioned um on the stream that we did with the AI SDK is like your your favorite part is usually like defining what that API looks like. And it seems like now you actually get to spend more time on that because you get to decide it. That's the fun part. And then the agents can build it. Yeah, I I totally agree. Yeah. And it's just so much easier to like do to get over the humps of like software development. Like especially I think you know like something probably a lot of people on stream can relate to is just those side projects that go unfinished where like you sort of hit a wall and you lose momentum or excitement on the project and it just kind of like stalls. And with AI it's just so much easier to like let AI kind of help you over those tedious like portions of a project. And I've been using it to do all sorts of like tedious stuff that I would have put off before. Like even for example like yesterday and this is not even code related. It's just documentation related. Um Matias at Laravel had PR a new feature to the cache stuff in Laravel. There's a new function in the cache on the cache facade called cash um colon funnel. It's already in the doc so like people can go read about it if they want. But um so he had actually wrote the code to do it. um PR got merged and then he submitted a doc's PR and when I saw the docs PR um all the content was good but I would have like reordered it and architected a little bit differently cuz there's another feature in the cache that's very similar and I thought it could kind of be combined into like one section that talks about both features cuz they're really related and like previously I would have been like uh like I've got to clone down this repo like I've got to copy and paste text around and like move it make sure the headings are still right make sure the links are still Right. And instead I just like cloned down the PR. I fired up open code and said, "Hey, this is a PR for this new cache feature and I think it kind of belongs like I think there should be a merge section with these two features. Like do that." And I only typed like a few sentences to be honest. Like it's very minimal input into the AI and it just like nailed it like immediately, you know, in you know 10 seconds basically. And that's just something that just like would have been so easy to put off. And it probably would have taken me like legitimately like 20 real world minutes to reorganize it, to double check it, to make sure I didn't make any mistakes and just like to be able to do that in 10 seconds. It's just like get that 20 minutes back is crazy. And I feel like I'm doing that basically every day. That's wild. I love that. Uh, someone in the chat said, "Laro cloud and AI codeex has a plus the opinion of Laravel framework plus boost is a single reason my non-developer wife has been able to create a super mature prototype for her dream app." So, thank you. That's awesome. That's great. Yeah. Yeah, it is cool. And I think we're going to see a lot more of that in Laravel. And it, to be fair, it's always been part of Laravel's story. Um, thanks to things like Larcast and how easy it was to get started with Laravel historically where every Laracon almost I would have someone come up to me and be like, I used to do job XYZ. It could be anything. Um, they were a nurse, they were a car salesman, they were anything. And now I like watched Lariccast and I started building Laravel and like I have a developer job now or I built like an app or something. And I saw that before AI. So like I can't imagine like after a like I think it's going to be like an exponential increase of that kind of thing. Yeah. We we were talking with uh John O Nolan about how it seems like kind of similar to what what you're saying about the the idea becomes the limitation but it seems like before it was very much a thing and Laravel was always this piece of like okay it has all the pieces that you need to build it you just need the idea and the hard part was you know getting all the code to be in the specific format that you needed for the idea to take shape but now it's like this this aspect of of like this personal software thing that I've I've really enjoyed is that there's so many things that I I just need, hey, I I need this, but I want it in this one particular format that no one else is going to find useful except for me. And being able to be able to build that with Laravel and then put it on Laravel cloud within like an afternoon is crazy how much has improved, you know, my personal life and also like my life with and how I, you know, do chores or errands for my wife or like I have a I have a personal gym app that I use because it I needed this one app that I use regularly, but I needed it this this particular way. It's crazy how that works. And it seems like the limitations of, you know, apps we use or uh software that we use is going to be less about uh or or more about like making it personal for you. Yeah, I agree. I uh kind of a question along those lines. you kind of mentioned um uh I I I saw I think this was in our in our Slack about uh it was kind of along the lines of like security aspect in the sense of uh Laravel has always been opinionated and batteries included where do you draw the line because especially when we think of like Laravel cloud where do you draw the line of giving people options while also still putting them on the right path for example Laravel could probably be like hey you can never make security mistakes and it's built into the framework but obvious Obviously, you can still do dumb things and you can, you know, do weird exploits. Where do you draw the line of whether it's shipping a feature for Laravel Cloud or whether it's shipping a feature for the framework that this is the preferred way to do it or this is you have options, let's do it this way. Oh gosh. I mean, I think that is honestly like the million-dollar question for this year probably, especially in the age of AI because it's it sort of goes back to what I said earlier about I think the way I think about revealing complexity and giving options is like shifting and I'm sure a lot of like open source projects are going to sort of cross this, you know, and are thinking about this because we just were able to assume so much in the past that we just simply can't assume anymore. like if you want to be widely relevant let's say um so you know and it's going to be a tough line to walk because developers and when I I said like traditional developers preai developers like really value options right like they really value being able to like customize things in their own special way blah blah blah and a lot of the people that are going to be coming into software development maybe don't value that as much, right? They just want to get stuff done really quickly. And I think we've always sort of had to walk this line anyway because there was always people like new to the framework that don't want they just want things to work, right? They don't care about all this customization or whatever or different features and there was more power users that that was really important to them. So, I just think it's like been amplified and and it's going to be continue to be amplified in sort of the AI age where um people that are new to the framework want sort of like even less decisions to make. They just want to like, hey, I just need to get in and like I want I have this idea and I want to build it. um while at the same time keeping sort of the our core historical audience um you know happy and I I think we're doing a good job of that so far. Um as far as like what is a feature of the framework or cloud and all of that. I don't um I really just try to always make decisions based on what's best for like the developer and their products. And I I try not to think about like I don't know. I think there's all sorts of like dark patterns you can get into about like I'm going to like hide this feature and put it in behind something in Laravel cloud where you can't use it even though it doesn't make sense. Like I I don't really think that way. I just try to think of like the best possible solution and the best possible like answer to that whether that's in the framework or it's in cloud or it's in a product or it's in an open source library like what is actually the best best for the user and I think usually things just work out well that way. And I think developers are just good at figuring out like if you're doing if you're like artificially doing things like that aren't in their best interest, you know. Um but yeah, it'll be interesting like as far as like guard rails and security like um you know I think it's going to be a big topic of like you know how do we build secure code in an AI age? I think one the models will just get better over time like they'll get they'll just write better code. So the the code that models generate by the end of this year is going to be better than the code they're generating now. Um and that's going to help. They're going to make less mistakes. Um I think there are guard rails we can put in Laraveo cloud and guardrails we're already exploring around common exploits. You know a lot of these exploits can be sort of sniffed out in the request payload. If we see that their SQL injection attempts happening, right? Like we can see that in the edge network through their parameters that are coming in or the query string um and filter that out. And in fact, we already do uh basically filter out sort of um the most common security exploits at the edge on Laravel cloud. Um and I think another benefit of cloud is we can be very opinionated about what we do there. So like we know you're deploying Laravel apps, right? It's called Laravel Cloud and we can make certain assumptions um and build certain experiences based on that that I think are um you know creates a very like cohesive unified experience and a platform that's very fine-tuned for the framework that's being deployed. Which was also kind of the idea behind Nightw Watch, right? like we can build an observability tool that is just goes way deeper than what other people might offer because we're interested in Laravel apps and we're going to be very opinionated about that and we're going to surface Laravel specific things um in a way that maybe other platforms or other companies it just doesn't make sense for them to do u which I think is just sort of like the value we provide having both the framework and the platform. Yeah. No, that's incredible. I love that. something about being able to have tailored aspect, no pun intended, of like like, hey, here's like this is what we know your you as developers are shipping, so we can make it perfect for that, right? Yeah, I think so. I think about um so like if we think about one year, I think the the actual deployments was 2.8 8 million deployments over the last year in Laraveville cloud. Um over 40k thou 40,000 uh environments and everything like that. But what do you think was the biggest challenge when scaling up Laravel cloud? Did you know it was going to be a challenge when we started off like a year ago or even before a year ago? Uh or was it kind of like an unexpected challenge? Um gosh, you know, I think there's challenges both technical and non-technical building something like Laravel Cloud and just at Laravel. Um thankfully like I'm of course aware of the technical challenges but I can't say that that like you know um the the engineering teams and the infrastructure teams at Laravel have done a really great job of calculating those challenges both scaling you know for instance if we have a private cloud customer that hey they're being DDoS attacked and we have people jumping in on a Saturday night or like this happened when we were actually at AWS reinvent and we're literally sitting at a restaurant table in Las Vegas with laptops out, you know, diving into these technical problems. Like those are technical challenges and, you know, each one we encounter helps us improve the platform and is an opportunity to sort of like win trust with customers, right? We learn a lesson of like, oh, here's how we can make this like never a problem again. And then also just sort of like the level of care we provide to our cloud customers. I think it's an opportunity to just win trust with them. There's also non-technical challenges, right? like we're a distributed company of 100 people um building a very technical product that there's not a lot of like prior art out there like all there's not a ton of people in the world that we can go to and say hey you've built a fully managed pass before do you want to come help us do that at Laravel like there's just not a lot of people like that in the world uh because there just it's just been very few of them historically um so it has been challenging we've had to learn a lot along the way thankfully we have been able to build a team where we have mix of people that actually kind of have done stuff like this before and some that haven't and we're learning along the way and you know gathering expertise and I think building a really great team. Um doing that all remotely is a challenge. I think we've done pretty well at it. Um Laravel's always been a remote company and um you know our user base is distributed around the globe, our employees are distributed around the globe and just staying in sync and staying like really focused on what we're doing. Um, you know, it's tough at any company, but I think it's it is a challenge at Laravel and um, you know, I think we're it's been fun and you know, it helps us build this really cool diverse team of interesting people around the globe and it's been uh, yeah, it's been a really rewarding experience. I think it's fun seeing like how the different teams operate too because it seems like with the cloud team that they're always like on tupil with each other. Like they're always wearing. I think the nightw watch team's pretty close. A lot of the Nightw Watch team have all worked with each other before, right? Which is really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you know, like it's sort of like when we first started growing the team at Laravel, um we hired a mix of people that had been around Laravel for a long time and there's a mix of people new to Laravel and you know, it's been great to see everyone work really well together and yeah, a lot of especially on the engineering teams where like a lot of us have been developers for a long time. A lot of us did kind of like know each other and it is cool to finally get to work with um people you may have, you know, interacted with in the open source world for years, but now you work together on Laravel Cloud or on some other project at Laravel. I think recently we've brought in because I know the open source team has been growing recently too and it's like really cool seeing people that you know has been active like contributing to Laravel and the open source framework and stuff like being brought in and now working as part of Laravel. Yeah. Yeah. It's super cool. I think one of the things that I think of when it comes to built like having cloud and the difference that even the initial first step within cloud and your initial demo the one that comes to um comes to mind is like the actual we've talked about a little bit is is like the actual graph on the on the homepage of like um I'm blanking on the exact name that we use for it internally uh But the the grid to show your your application, any cute clusters, any the canvas. Yeah, canvas. There we go. Sorry. Um like the canvas itself. Why do you think the canvas is important in that sense? Like why why was the canvas a thing? Because I don't think in the initial demo for cloud at Laracon US last two years ago, 2024. 2024. Yeah. I don't think it was part of the demo if I'm correct. Yeah. And that's why I was laughing is because the canvas was a very late addition to Laravel cloud. Um basically, you know, we had built Laravel cloud basically to almost basically launch readiness, let's say. Um and it was not really uh some aspects were similar to what you see today. It was very like card based. And as as I was using it, I was doing a lot of clicks to do things like for example, if I wanted to add a replica to my app compute. I think I at the time I needed to go to like the environment, then I needed to click settings, then I needed to click compute, and then I needed to click app compute or something like that, and then finally I could scale clusters. And I actually counted the clicks and put it in our Slack um with sort of you know our head of design and the cloud leadership and was like hey if I want to scale it takes me five clicks to scale and I think that like really it should just be almost like one click. I think at first I even advocated for like a scale button that was like literally like a purple scale button and you know I was like developers will they'll love to click this like they'll all scale their apps like they can't resist it. Um but we then I like drew up in I think it was in an app called Excaladraw. I drew like sort of a marker sketch of the canvas of like or we could kind of have this like graphical representation of it and I click the app compute and then I just like drag the slider and it's just two clicks. And that was right before like Laracon um EU 2025. I guess it we literally worked on it at the hackathon at Laracon EU and like the whole app changed almost at the hackathon and um we were drinking like nothing but diet Coke Zero and pizza and hamburgers and everyone was just like super locked in and you know Jason Begs did probably the the bulk of the work like getting this canvas implemented and we spent a lot of time like there was so much complexity that went into like you know like when you hover over the app compute. It it like actually draws little lines between like the app compute and the database and like what can talk to each other. And I remember we were working on that or Jason was working I wasn't doing any of that. Jason was working on that and but I was working on like command pallet uh getting that going and yeah, you know, it was just a very late edition but I think became like this very formative piece of Laravel cloud and you know I think one of the the the coolest parts of it and um anyway I'm I'm excited to keep evolving the canvas this year. What like two weeks before launch then? Yeah. Yeah. Literally. um very soon before launch. Um but it was just one of those moments like you know where we're all there in person and everyone's just really focused and we had one notion doc that had everyone's everyone had like a section in the notion doc and a to-do list and we were just cranking through so much stuff in that hackathon. I think it was only like three days. Um yeah that it was it was the app really like transformed and got into what you see today basically. Yeah. I I remember those three days. I wasn't there, but I remember them because I was trying to get ahead of ahead of schedule on like recording videos for like the cloud launch because I was working on the larville.com video at the same time, too. And I just remember logging in after like after EU and I was like, well, never mind. The application is completely different. I have to re re-record all this. Yeah. Yeah. It was crazy. Um Yeah. Yeah. And I always look back on that hackathon as like, you know, one of the best memories of building cloud with um, you know, so so many cool people were there and it was just fun being, you know, so close to launch and just like tackling really ambitious stuff. Um, we did similar things, you know, with like the Forge Hackathon in Denver where like there was no ter built-in terminal in Forge before that happened on, you know, and and Kieran and Ryan Chandler just like lock in and like knock out this terminal. Um, we put a lot of polish on the app, but yeah, those hackathons are always fun. That's crazy. I'm I'm just thinking like my my question then is it's kind of hard to play, you know, it's it's hard to do this thing of like, oh, what if? But I'm curious, do you think anything would have changed? Maybe not in output, but maybe in just I don't know, feel vibe overall…

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