What Small Business Owners Get Wrong About SEO (with Mariah Magazine)

Mariah Magazine, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited for this. Uh yeah. Can you share your background? I'm excited, too. My background is I started this business when I was 22. I basically I quit college. I was in school for website design and development for one semester and they were teaching me HTML table layouts and I was like this is already outdated. I can teach myself. So I ended up quitting school and quitting my full-time job in the same month and I was like I don't know what I'm going to do but I'm going to figure it out. And then basically what happened is I I saw an ad on Craigslist and it was for a paid internship for a local agency. And so I ended up getting that paid internship. It was two dudes four years older than me hanging out in like an abandoned office building like hanging out doing digital marketing. And so the one owner was a WordPress developer and he kind of just took me under his wing, showed me everything that he knew and that's how I got started. What was that? What city was that? Buffalo, New York. Oh, that's cool. You're just hanging out in a in a warehouse doing SEO. It was like a like an it was kind of like an old like home like turned into like this office. We used to have clients come in sometimes, but it was never like any of those like you know agency offices that you see in like the downtown buildings or anything like that. And so I say it was like it was just two dudes and me like hanging out having fun and like making things on the internet. It was really cool. That's the way to do it. That's what's up. When when I was learning SEO, I was living in Williamsburg in uh New York City, and Williamsburg is full of tons of warehouses. So, I guess I was probably doing some SEO in warehouses as well as I was as I was learning it. All right. What's an SEO success story that you love? I think this is just a fun question to I should start more podcasts with this because you want to hear cool things that are possible with SEO and Yeah. Yeah. This This is my favorite story and my assistant makes me tell it all the time. Perfect. So, I I had a client and they're an e-commerce client and they're selling candles. Lots of people sell candles. This is not a a unique business, you know what I mean? Like, it's very it's very saturated, especially in the e-commerce market and stuff like that. And so, I really most of my clients are small business owners that really don't understand SEO. So, I'm kind of that middleman that comes in. I'm the consultant and the educator. And so I kind of tell them like a more expanded perspective about SEO because it's so much more than like what people think that it is. I use it as like a decision-making tool, a business like a business research tool, like that type of thing. And so I was doing keyword research and I was literally like, do you guys have many candles? I was like, I'm seeing the search volume here. It's pretty incredible. The keyword diff especially for a small business, right? I think it was like a thousand searches per month and the keyword difficulty was basically like non-existent. And I was like, "Nobody's really showing up for this. I think that you guys could kill it." And so they were like, "I haven't really thought about doing that. Let me marinate with it." So she comes back a week later and she goes, "I was thinking about it. I really want to do it." She goes, "So I reached out to my stockus, like the other people that like stock their products in stores." And she goes, "And I told them that we were going to do mini candles of like our featured scents. What do they think about it?" Somebody put in an order for 500 candles immediately. She made money from many candles without even putting it on her website. Yeah. Because we use SEO as literally a decision-m process for the business. You use the keyword research to validate the demand. Yes. And like that that was before we even put it on the site or did anything with the site. And I'm like, "So now you have proof that people actually want this." This method of marketing is so effective, I had to make sure it wasn't against Google's rules before I kept using it. It's a form of SEO I call compact keywords. Whereas most SEO focuses on putting up articles to answer questions, how, what, when. Compact Keywords focuses on putting up dozens of pages that sell to searchers who are actually looking to buy. These pages rank on Google and convert so much better than normal that when I discovered this years ago, I couldn't believe this was allowed. It's less work, too. The average compact keywords landing page is only 415 words. Compact Keywords is a 13-hour deep course on getting sales with SEO. A customer said, "We spent nearly 18,000 in the last year and a half on marketing and SEO through different agencies locally, and that did nothing. We decided to take the leap on the compact keywords course. We're now getting about six to eight calls per day on a good day, which is just unheard of. Another customer said, "Give it to a junior employee, have them follow it exactly as Edwards laid out. You don't have to do anything, and you're going to gain a six-figure SEO level employee just by having them go through this course. Compact Keywords is about setting up an SEO funnel that brings you sales for years and years and years. It works with AI. It's less work than traditional SEO, and it makes way more money. You can get it now at compactkeywords.com. Back to the podcast. And like that was such a huge confident boost, especially like a lot of people come to me when they're like I don't want to say they're like struggling, but they're kind of like feeling really overwhelmed with marketing and they're like if I could just get on Google or if I could just show up in organic search. This completely shifted the way that like she looked at her business. and she literally came back and she was like, "Thank you so much because I don't know what I would have done because everything always felt defeating." And I was like, "Yeah, that is a really good SEO story because it's not typical to like what you would hear from like, oh, I grew the website traffic from blah blah blah blah blah." Like, I don't want to say that that's the easy part, but like there's things like that you can put into play in order to increase rankings. You know what I mean? Like we all have experience doing this, but like that perspective shift with the client, that's a gamecher that can now carry her out for the next 5 years because she has this confidence of like, oh [ __ ] people actually want these things. Oh wait, there's actually a way for me to be able to find out why or like what people are typing into Google. And that's why I got so hooked into SEO in the beginning. I was like, there's no other marketing strategy like this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. to to act to actually like it's it's it's crazy that you can literally show up without ads for people who are looking for what you sell right now. Like that's yes that's that's mind these people they don't know that your brand exists. They know that they want what you sell and you can show up right now for them and that's mindblowing. Also I I really I like what you said about the validation and there's so many so many things. one, it's one thing looking at keyword research and seeing volume and and thinking like this could make you money. It's another thing actually getting the money from SEO research. Like when you like you said when you have that confidence you you're like, "Oh, wow. This really works. This is important." Yeah. You know, and so like did you rank did you rank for the for the keyword? We here's the thing with what I do, okay? So, like I typically just have an SEO foundational package. So, like we go in, we set it up and then I try to help the client like infuse SEOfriendly habits into the things that they are doing. So, I don't know if she followed through with my recommendations. I'm not sure, but we were starting to get found for the more um specific sense that she was doing. So, like we were starting to gain traction there, but she was also a client that wanted to completely regut her homepage every season. Oh, no. And I was like, girl, wait. We can't do that. We can't do that. We can we can swap out photos, but like the H1 heading and like the content cannot be changed seasonally. We need this to be more of like an evergreen thing. And so, we were starting to get traction. I don't know if they ended up ever ranking for many candles. You But you could change I feel like you could change because you have pages that are made to rank for specific keywords. Sure. And you could you could change the homepage a little bit, right? To uh it was gutted. What do you mean? It was it was like completely changed like like almost like all of the blocks. Yeah. like everything on the but is like the is is the site kind of staying along the same topic or is it like you're switching niches every season or something? It was like switching scents every season. And so I had to kind of tell them that like the way that this goes is like can we really feature like your main sense so that we have something evergreen on the site that we have a collection that we're really prioritizing like specifically for SEO. And so it's very interesting. thing I feel like kind of where I show up in the market because like I'm really working with people a lot of them don't understand how the internet works. Do you know what I mean? I completely know what you mean. Completely. And I think it's also really cool that you're just trying to give the foundational skills to these business owners because honestly like a lot of business owners actually have like requisite domain authority to rank for really good lucrative purchase intent keywords and they don't even know it because they don't know the the just like they don't know what relevance means. They don't know put to put a keyword in their page title or their URL slug. And that's the norm for businesses. It's why SEO is so easy because like Yeah. You're even and even major businesses don't even know this the like Yeah. Okay. A lot a lot of my clients think that and this is this is kind of why I got into SEO specifically is because when I started my business, I was doing website design and development and then people kept asking me like, "How do I get these websites to show up on Google?" I was like, "I don't know. My job is done. Like the website is launched. It looks beautiful. We love it. I don't have a clue." And then people kept asking me and so when I was trying to figure out SEO, I was finding that like a lot of the content out there was advanced SEO people talking to other advanced SEO people. True. Or it was like a lot of the show. Yeah. And I mean like if you have a like a target audience for that that's great, but then it was like SEO agencies trying to be vague and overwhelming so people just hired them on retainer. And so it's like there was no like middle option at that time to be able to break SEO down and to basically like put it out there loud and clear that SEO is not as competitive as you think that it is because everybody's seeing all of this like super advanced SEO information. So they're getting really overwhelmed and they think that like you need a degree in technology and computer systems in order to be able to show up on Google. And I'm like, no, you have to understand how the internet works, how search works, and how your website kind of comes in and to play with that. And keywords are the middleman that we get to play with even in the age of AI. And I go, if you can do the keywords and you understand your people, there's a [ __ ] ton of money to be made here. And so, it's really just like letting them know that like there's possibility. There's possibility on the internet and they don't have to jump around and do TikToks if they don't want to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How should business owners do you ever hear from business owners who say like, "Nobody is searching for what I do." Yeah. And then that's when I un that's when I realize that they don't understand keywords and they're usually too far down into the buyer's journey and they're typing in very specific things. Like I taught a workshop and I'll have people do like keyword research or like brainstorming like live on the workshop. some of these keywords people are putting in like full sentences and full phrases and I'm like no we have to shorten that and then let the tool do the work for you. They will show you different variations and different synonyms. And so usually when that happens people are thinking way too limited about their keywords and we kind of have to like take a step back, chunk it down, be more broad, but it's like they want to target some very specific whole phrase. Yeah. And often times often times business owners are literally putting in what they think are keywords based on just like working in their industry with literally no data. They're not even they're not looking at search volume. They're just like this is something that my business should rank for because my customers have said it a million times and but that's not actually how people type it into search engines. Yeah. And I I try to explain to people that your SEO keywords are not your messaging and positioning. they connect to them. So like your messaging and positioning so often can be like additional words that are on there that can then bring in secondary keywords. But like that reframe is usually really helpful for people because they're like oh so I don't have to get every single thing that I want to be found into one phrase. It's like no like you're an online business coach. I know that you're an online business coach for neurode divergent and people with ADHD, but like that's not your keyword. Your keyword right now is online business coach. And then your messaging and positioning which will also be on your website probably in your H1 heading throughout the content also pulls in these secondary keywords as well. But like we need a keyword that people are actually searching for. So how do you what's your what's your method for doing keyword research for finding especially like I don't know if do you separate keywords between purchase intent and informational? I in my head I do. Okay. Like it's the way that I like it's kind of just the way that I see it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, and I feel like people that really like SEO, so much is happening in our brains that we can literally like look at a list and be able to separate them on phrases almost without even looking at. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I'm I'm more I'm more like um Are you the Do you Do you have a type of keywords? So, like for me, I love going after purchase intent keywords a lot more thanformational purchase intent. They're easier to rank for. They're less competitive because they're typically more specific. They have lower search volume which also makes it so less businesses are going after them but like the the intent is so high that they convert incredible and so they're easy to rank for and then they convert really well and it's like magic. So that's like what I I don't know if do you have like Yeah. And I kind of mostly I try not always but I stay away fromformational keywords a lot. Yeah. So I would say that my approach is really trying to get people to do that exact thing. So, like looking at the transactional keywords and the commercial intent keywords because my people are business owners. It's like the whole point of SEO isn't just to like show up for the hell of it. Like, you need to make money. And so, I really try to get people to be able to find keywords that we can connect to their money pages, their product pages, their service pages, their sales page. You're revamping pages to match keywords. Yes. Okay. I will I've had client like probably to be honest like 40% of clients after we do keyword research want to redesign and restructure their entire site. Is that bad? That's a good thing. Yeah, that's a good thing for me. I'm like that's great. Yeah. Yeah. So, I call my approach like the SEO sandwich. So, it's like we do SEO strategy first. We do the keywords. We find like the gaps in the market. We find what we want our priorities to be. Then I'll build out the strategy and then I go, "So, what are we going to do about this?" Because like, I'm not putting these bombass words respectfully on these crusty ass pages if like the intent doesn't make sense. Like, you're not going to rank and you're not going to get sales for them. So, a lot of the time we have to bring in a website designer or we have to bring in somebody to be able to help structure the site based on the actual keywords that we've already approved and align with the business. And so then we have like this middle section where it's like there's usually some revamping that has to happen on the site. What's your kind for finding keywords? Like do you have like a repeatable method that you could describe tools that you like? Uh Semrush is my go-to. It's it's my ride or die keyword magic tool. So you I mean like I don't know if this is an approach. Maybe I just don't talk to other SEO people enough. I just think that everybody thinks the same way as me. I can I can tell I mean in SE even like someone like me in SEO I have so many SEOs on this show who I quietly disagree with and and you know I don't I don't like to be disrespectful to any guests when they come on the show but like or even just other ones who are very successful and I'm very successful and we're both very successful but we have our different ways of doing things. There are yeah there's so many oh my gosh so many different approaches to SEO. Yeah. And I think so that's why that's a good thing and that's a cool thing and that's why I'm asking you your method of keyword research because because it might be like something that a lot of other people haven't considered or maybe it's like yeah I don't I don't want to do the exact strategy that Mariah is doing but I could steal this aspect of it and apply it to what I'm currently doing and I think that would make what I'm currently doing really pop. Sure. Okay. Cool. So I would say most of the time when I'm doing keyword research a lot of the time I'm starting with competitor analysis. I want to see what other people are showing up for. And so that like that right there is like a huge eye openener to clients and students. I have an SEO membership too where it's like I help people kind of take this stuff into their own hands. And so a lot of the times when I say competitor analysis, people are like what do you mean? Like I got to like go after like my and I was like no no no no no no competitors in terms of like the words that you want to show up for. doesn't have to be like competitors in terms of like who is doing the exact same thing in the exact same way offering the exact same solutions that you are. And I think that that's a huge shift for people that aren't in the SEO space where it's like in SEO your competitors are not your brand competitors a lot of the time. And so being able to find those usually when we can find good ones that kicks it off. And then I like to tell clients that I just go into a rabbit hole. So then like I'm in this deep rabbit hole of like being able to find and it's like like an ear prickup moment, but I'm using my eyes. So like an eye prickup moment of just like a ooh that's a really good one. And then I'll Google search the keyword and I'll kind of like scan the the Google search results page and just look for other words within the metadata. Look for other words that are popping down. And then I put those back into the keyword magic tool and kind of let the keyword magic tool do things. And I kind of just keep repeating that. And then if I run into a brick wall, I'll basically find another competitor and start all over again. And then I end up with a list that I send my clients of like a hundred to like 400 keywords and I have to remind them that like it's not your job to sort through and find the ones that are actually good. I just have to know if these essentially match your brand. So that's kind of my approach. And then like I will break them down into things that like into buckets that actually make sense for their business, their pages, blog post ideas that support their services, like that type of thing. How do you decide on easy keywords versus more competitive keywords, ones that will take more resources to rank for? Yeah, it it depends on the client, right? Like if I have a client and their domain authority is a three, I'm like, listen, we can't go after the super super intense ones, but there's also a part of me that's like, but we also can't Yeah, but what No, what makes a keyword intense? So, what like what makes a keyword hard for you and what makes a keyword easy? Yeah, I would say it's usually the keyword difficulty when I'm messing with a client that has like the um like a poor domain authority. It's usually the keyword difficulty where I'm like even if you are wellknown in this topic and like this fits directly, it's the keyword difficulty that's going to hold us back from ranking, but I don't completely take that keyword out of the strategy either if it's such a good fit for it. That's why it's like it's so nuanced and sometimes I hop on a call and kind of explain these things to them. Um that feels crazy nuanced. People don't get it. It's really frustrating. No. And that's like I try to teach workshops and keep it under 60 minutes and I'm literally like y'all I got too much [ __ ] to say about this. There's so many nuances and like ways to kind of take this apart. So I would say keyword difficulty especially because like my small business owner clients they don't have the domain authority. But then I kind of remind them that like we can get over that domain authority hurdle if we have topic authority on the site because I've seen it with other clients that can rank better than other people that have a way higher domain authority because they're very niched down. And so that's kind of what I try to remind them when they're like looking at these numbers because they'll do research on their own, right? And they're like, "Well, you know, I read that I shouldn't go after a domain authority keyword." And I'm like, "No, no, no, no. that keyword is so good for your business that like you can rank above. Is that something that people say? They they say I I read that I shouldn't go after how did how did you phrase it? Yeah. Like I read that I shouldn't go after like a keyword that has a higher domain authority of like 50 because you mean a keyword that has like that requires a higher domain authority. Yeah. So like they'll they take the data from Semrush and like just look at it as like matterof fact. Do you know what I mean? So it's like if a keyword has like a domain authority of like 78, they'll be like well I can't go that's high. No, I read that like I can't go after like like high competition keywords. A lot of people think that. Yeah. They don't Yeah. They don't know what actually makes a keyword competitive. What I always say is just like why don't you look at like see how many other businesses are actually trying to rank for that keyword. Do you see that keyword in other businesses page titles and URL slugs and H1s and first sentences? And you can look at a you can look at a search engine results page and you can see that that's a huge thing that I feel like lets people's shoulders kind of relax is like once they think that like SEO like a lot of the times people think that like SEO is this big complicated thing and like don't look behind the curtain, you can't do it yourself, it's so complicated. But once I tell them, I'm like, all we're doing as SEOs is like working backwards. Like a lot of the time we're like taking a look at like who's showing up for this keyword that I want and then kind of like trying to dissect how they did it, what they're doing, and like do we want to be able to do this? I go, so you can do that too before you target a keyword. Go to Google and Google it. We're working backwards here to be able to figure this out, but you have to make sure that the keyword makes sense. So, like for example, I had a client, she was a public speaking coach, and she was like, I want to show up on page one for powerful speaker. I go, great, let's Google it. So, we Googled it. Car audio stereo speakers are showing up. I was like, no, no, you don't. Like, you you don't and you won't. And I was like, and so if I didn't show you this, you would be looking at your Google Search Console after we wrapped up and you'd be like, SEO sucks. Mariah's full of [ __ ] I'm not ranking for powerful speaker. And I go, "But you were never going to." I go, "We need to find the very literal phrases that people are typing in." And so I was like, "I know that it's not fun and sexy, but like it's going to be public speaking coach. Like that's like one of your main keywords because that's very literally like exactly what you do." And like that example for people that don't think about it, they're like, "Oh, I have to consider like how Google sees this keyword." I'm like, "Yeah, when we're in our industry, we get so stuck on these phrases that we use that it's like we get completely uh blindsided by like the possibilities that go, "No, you have to like do the research on Google to see how Google to see if you're Yeah. to see if you're even going to show up." How often are you How often are you building links? Building links? Not often. Oh, I wanted to ask if you had any like favorite link building strategies. My favorite one is PR. Yeah. So, what are you doing? That's that's basically what it is. So, PR actually. No. And and I think PR is is one of the best if not the best. So, uh yeah, I like there's a lot of there's a lot of like SEOs who are who are like especially just like ne they've gone so far down into SEO and they overlook the fundamentals. I don't know if you've seen this. They overlook the fundamentals of actually just trying to do cool marketing that gets referral traffic which is the best that those are those are the best links. Yes. So I think that I didn't go into the super deep backlink rabbit hole because of the way that my business is set up. Like I'm not doing retainer packages for people. And so I kind of like try to teach business owners that like okay once we have the strategy for your site now it's like backlink and like brand authority time. And one of the best things for that in my opinion is PR and it's going to be like social media and the directories that make sense for you depending on like what kind of business they are and that type of thing. So I try to like introduce PR to business owners in a way that feels approachable because a lot of them just spend a whole lot of money with me. They don't have a whole lot of money to go ahead and hire a PR person on retainer. So it's like getting quoted in the media. So like quoted and it used to be called featured but like connectively it used to be then we used to have hor like that type of thing because I want business owners to understand that like their viewpoints are valid and they are needed and there are a [ __ ] ton of journalists that are literally looking to go ahead and to quote you now that gives you brand authority backlinks but it also gives you that referral Harrow actually Harrow interestingly so featured.com they I don't you probably know they say bought Harrow and and they revived it. Yeah. And and there's also and uh Peter Oh gosh, I can't remember his last name. The founder of Help a Reporter out um I can't remember. He started his own. Yeah, he started a new one called Source of Sources, which is also has incredible journalists on it. And it's Harrow completely free. Source of Sources completely free. And like Yeah. Like I I've gotten in the craziest there was uh one of my favorite like link building stories is just like there was like a it was a new site and I'm just like every day for the next 30 days I'm going to be building links for this. One of my favorite things is to just answer queries on help reporter out featured. And so I I just did that just I I think I made a point of just responding to one journalist a day on one of these platforms. And after like 15 or 20 days or something, I got a do follow link in Healthline and you lit there was a literal spike up in rankings that just maintained forever from Healthline. And yeah, people I mean it was just it was crazy. It it was crazy how well it worked. It's so good. And what also what other what people overlook too is like these journalists usually write for more than one publication. So if you answer a question really well, this is what happened to me. So I ended up getting featured in Business Insider for like my YouTube channel and how it like supports my business. And that journalist was like, "Love your story so much. I'm actually writing feature pieces for Buffer, like the social media scheduling tool. I would like to interview you for two different things." So they ended up doing How did How did you get How did you get that? That's crazy. Yeah, she literally reached out to me after she featured me in Business Insider and she was like, "Hey, I have to write articles for how and you got in you said you got in business insider in the first place from which quoted from quoted from Q W T? Yeah. I just answered a question and then and and so the journalists like do when you're when you uh are responding to journalists or afterwards when you get mentioned do you ever like um try to like start a relationship with a journalist like keep in touch? Do you ever need me for anything? Yes, typically because that's kind of just naturally how I talk anyways. And so I'm always very gracious and like very I'm very expressive when I talk and I write how I talk. And so I'll tell them I'm like, "Oh my god, this is incredible. I'm going to share with my audience. I love the way that you wrote this, this, and this. If you need anything else, like I'm totally here." Or, you know, I have a connection of small business owners that really talk about this topic. If you need me to connect you with anybody. So now I feel like that sticks with them is like, "Oh, this is a source that I can use." She's a genuine person. She's really nice. Like the reason I'm asking this is because, and you probably know these people, too. There's a lot of like very technical SEOs. These are people that I was describing before and they don't actually create these relationships with journalists. It's like, great, I got the mention. I'm going to move on and I'm just going to keep responding to journalists. But like like you said, journalists write for multiple publications. Y you can have a relationship with one journalist that gets you multiple stories on 10 different high authority domains. That's crazy. Yes. Yeah. I think that a lot of people overlook that and they see it as just like a one shot. And don't get me wrong, like some of them are. You're not always going to hit a journalist that's like writing on the same topic in numerous publications where like your expertise makes sense. But like I think a lot of SEOs forget that like we're humans talking with other humans. Humans naturally want to connect in some way or another. Even if you're a little bit more introverted, like you naturally want to genuinely connect with people. And it's like if you can take a second to step back from like the agenda or like that north star that we're moving to and just be like, "Hey, you're a person on the internet who like has problems and needs solutions and me too." And it's like SEO and PR overlap so much, especially now. It's like we we just have to remember that there's like humans behind these things. It's humans making decisions. It's humans reaching out. How much do you see uh what you're doing with PR or just your SEO strategies are also working with AI? Uh I would say quite a bit. Quite a bit. There's like a pretty big overlap I would say. Um, which also makes business owners feel a little bit better because there's like a lot of people touting that GEO AEO is the new SEO. And I'm like you you can't have I was calling it bingo on my workshop yesterday. I was like cuz there's so many different synonyms for it. I was like yeah it's basically bingo. So like you can't have that without a solid SEO foundation. And I think that people think that like they're two completely different things when you're thinking about the old way of doing SEO. If you've been doing SEO in like a modern way and taking all of these things into account and brand authority into account and just like all of these things, there's a huge huge overlap happening. And so I'm finding that like the people that are showing up and like have been putting effort into SEO are getting quoted in AI and recommended in AI so much easier because they already have the foundation. they already have the trust. They already have a solid website that it's like these people can scan content and like be able to quote and parse information from. So I think it's just it's like the next phase where you can pull additional levers in order to like step into that. But the foundation is having a good solid website with like good SEO and knowing your audience. That's like the biggest thing. What does a good solid website mean? A good solid website is a website that is set up for like a positive. God, it's like so many. There's so many there's so many. Yeah. But but you know there but that's what that I'm I'm imagining. Okay. I'm imagining a small business owner listening to to this podcast who's just getting started with SEO. Someone who the the people that you're used to talking to and and they want to know, okay, so like I'm here, Mariah. Like like what do I have to do? tell me what do I like what do I have to do by the end of the week so that I can start getting more traffic because I'm frustrated of not showing up for these keywords that I should be showing up for. Sure. So I would say a website that's set up for a positive user experience. And in order to do that, you have to know your audience. You have to know your people. You have to know what solutions you solve and set up your website accordingly to be able to move people from one page down to another. And looking at your website as like the training manual about your business. So, it's like we need a homepage. We need an about page. A lot of people like to skip about pages when they're new in business. But it's like we're humans hiring humans. We're humans buying from humans. I want to know the human behind the business, especially in the age of AI when anybody can claude code some shitty website and then it's like I don't know where my money's going. So, I think about pages are becoming increasingly more important. I'm so sick of these cloud code websites. They all look the same. They all have the little like top thing above the H1 and and above each H2. They all look they all they all use the same fonts and the same the same the same margins and it's just I I can't take it. It's stripping creativity. It's bad. So, you need a contact page. And a lot of people overlook that, too. They'll just have like a link to like email or they'll they won't even have that. they'll like have a link to like fill out a form and I'm like no you need like a contact page like what if somebody has a question before they fill out your project request form like there needs to be some way to be able to contact this person and in Google's guidelines like that god I don't even know how long it is like the 100page PDF about like the user guidelines whatever it literally says that they have people look for like an about page and a contact page on a website to verify that they're like a real human type thing and so the other thing is having separate service pages for your services. A lot of business owners want to put all of their services on one page. That's helping nobody. Yes, that is helping nobody. I also like to remind people that like there are different buyer types. There are people like me. I'm a factf finder. I'm not reaching out. I'm not hopping on a call until I feel like I understand your entire process, everything that's included and who's a perfect fit for it. So, these services pages need to be more than two sentences long. They need to explain your process. They need to have FAQs. They need to have explain the timeline or what's included, what's not included, like more information because a lot of people coming to your website when you are focusing on SEO are cold leads. So many people build websites for warm leads, people that already know them or referrals. People coming from AI and SEO are cold. They don't know you yet. And so the other thing that comes into this is like trust factors. Maybe you're brand new in business and you don't have testimonials and you don't have reviews. Okay, cool. what are your credentials? Have you won any awards like in your career? We can bring those past things as long as they're relevant onto the site. So, I would say that like those are really the foundational things. And then obviously we get into the technical things of like the site has to load quickly. It cannot take 20 minutes in order to load. You get a lot of those with with long long uh loading times. Some clients are on show it and it's so like show it can be overloading. I don't know if you've ever messed with the platform. It's like super popular for photographers and creative business owners. Yes. And it is not my favorite. It's pretty brutal because it's so designheavy. It's very much like building a magazine. So you can only imagine how many resources, how many photos. So it can that can be an issue. It's nothing like I've seen like in the beginning stages where it was like some websites would load like massively slow, but there are some websites where I'm like it needs to load quicker than this. What's your favorite what are what are some CMSs that people wouldn't like, you know? So like I I have people being like, can I do SEO with Squarespace? And I'm like, I've seen people get crazy results with Squarespace, crazy SEO results with Squarespace. I mean, like I think a lot of people will be like, WordPress, WordPress, WordPress. And I I like WordPress a lot. I use WordPress every day. But like there are other CMSs that Yeah. So what are what CMSs do you really like? Yeah. So and and if and for any people starting a new site, what CMSs do should they stay the f away from? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I would say my favorite is just because I was born into this world. It's WordPress. for my websiteific they don't want to learn how to do this and so usually my recommendation is Squarespace or Wix in the past year I would say like 3 years ago I never would have recommended Wix but actually I heard that they hired like a really incredible SEO consultant and they've really upped their game in terms of like the backend coding. And so I've worked on some Wix websites for local clients cuz they already had their site built on there. We've got them ranking like pretty well pretty quickly. Um, so I would say Squarespace and Wix are probably my two favorite to recommend to like small business owners that don't want to hire a developer and kind of like want to take things into their own hands. to stay away from. I would say the course platforms that tell you that you can build a website on them. Cartra, Kajjabi, Podia, stay away from those. Your website should not be built on them. They're lacking so many features. It's extremely painful. I won't work on them. You're doing so you you do the hands-on SEO work for for clients foundationally. Mhm. Yes. So, it's like an 8 to 10 week package. What What do you find yourself doing over and over again? And what what is the biggest like needle mover things that you do? Yeah. Things that the biggest needle mover honestly is like keyword research and being able to like map the keywords to pages that make sense and then give clients like suggestions of what we have to add to those page pages. That's like the biggest game changer is like that full foundational strategy because like you really can't just add text to an image alt text on one shitty page with a shitty keyword and expect it to rank. What so when you when you want to add a keyword to a page like what what type of things will you do? I see. I see. Um I in terms of the full strategy, it's like try to get it into the H1 heading, the SEO title, the metad description. And you probably have like clients fight you on on these things too, right? Not anymore. Okay, I would say not anymore. I think because of my confidence on it and I tell them, especially with the H1 head, I do have website designers fight me on the H1 heading, but I tell them that like the H1 heading doesn't have to be the biggest text on the page and we actually have a little bit more flexibility with it. So like on my site, if you go to my homepage, my H1 heading is like a 16 pixel font at the very top and then my big text is like what I actually want to say. That's my messaging and positioning, but like that's not a paragraph. Yeah. Yep. And so like I tell website designers like that we can kind of tweak this stuff. It doesn't have to be like as harsh as I feel like they assume that it is. We do have some flexibility. Uh but outside of that, people usually don't fight me on things. They're usually pretty good because I think that like I'm confident in what I say. Do you know what I mean? Like I come across like, "Hey, listen, like this is this is what we have to do." Like I'm not saying this just to like be fun about it. Like this is how we give context. I asked this because there's such a mix of of people who listen to this show. Some of them are extremely advanced, like wild advanced. They have like crazy a decillion dollar hundred million dollar companies. Like other people are just they are they have a new business. They're de they're broke and they're trying to figure out how to get how to use SEO with their they want to have this like new ecom business or services business. They want to figure out how to how to use SEO for for they don't know the first thing about it. Other listeners have small digital marketing agencies. Some have SEO agencies. Some have really big SEO agencies and a a common thing for people who have SEO agencies is I know what the client should do but I can't get the client to do it. How do I just have the client believe in me so they will put will do the things I've did all the keyword research. I know exactly what they want to do is driving me and and that's a that's a very common thing. And so it's it's cool to hear from you how you have clients do it because there's lots of people who struggle getting clients to do their work to do their work. Yeah. I I think that one of the big things that's really helpful is connecting to the client why why it matters and then showing them an example. So like I don't have calls built in to my done for you foundational setup. I'm very much like a little hermit when it comes to like working. I prefer showing up and doing things like this, you know what I mean? Like public facing. Um, but if a client feels confused or they feel like they don't understand why, like we can hop on a call and I will talk to them for 30 minutes and literally explain, show them the data, show them examples and explain exactly why. Clients love that. I hear from it o hear from people over and over and over and over and over again how much they appreciate me taking a second to be able to break it down for them and bring them on board. And then I have their buy in for every decision that I want to make moving forward because they understand if they have any questions. I always tell them this is a collaborative project. You know your business, you know your audience. I know SEO. We need to come together and we need to collaborate in order to get this to work. And I also think the issue that I have found with SEO agencies is that they don't pay enough attention to intent. So, I like a lot of clients will bring me on kind of after they work with an agency, they haven't gotten results and that type of thing. And I've seen like some SEO keyword mapping and it's like some agencies kind of just want to throw keywords and attach them to a page where it doesn't make sense. And then that confuses the client even more. The client's like, "Well, they wanted to hit this." I go, "You were never going to show up for that. That makes no sense. Zero sense." And so I feel like if you can really break it down and just be honest and transparent about the strategy and why you're doing it, the buyin is so much easier for clients and even just telling them if you have any questions, please let me know. Like I want you to feel good about this. And they're like, "Oh my god, thank you so much." That's what people say that they love about working with me the most. Do you ever give advice on people for like how to get digital marketing clients, SEO clients, digital marketing clients? You said no. No, not typically. Okay. But if you were to give advice, okay, if I were Yeah, because I mean that's all I mean, like I said, lots of people who have agencies or or just they're consultants. They listen to the show and there's plenty of them that I mean, like I remember when I was starting and I didn't know how to do sales. I didn't know how to get clients. I had to How did you get your first client? How did I get my first client was word of mouth. It was No, it was a it was a referral. It was a referral from a developer that I knew. But what's what's interesting is that it took me a while to realize that I should optimize for actual referrals. And and so like what I used to do is I used to go to I'm I'm from Brooklyn. I'm from New York City, born and raised. And and what I used to do is I used to just go to like tech meetups and entrepreneurship meetups and bounce around trying to talk to as many people as I could saying, "Hey, I do SEO. Hey, I do SEO. Hey, do SEO." Got to shake everyone's hand in the room. Give my card. Here's my card. Here's my card. Here's here's my I'm at the club putting the card out. That's that's but and that's what I relatable. What? It's so relatable. No, but that's what I thought I had to do. And so and then I literally developed a a a different strategy after doing after going to meetups through meetup.com like a thousand times or through Gary's Guide, which is really great for anybody who's in New York City. Gary's Guide has like the best events. So, so then what I what I started doing and this is what works really well is get to an event early where you are one of the first people there where where other people are desperate to talk to other people. When you get to an event early, people feel awkward. They just don't want to be by themselves. They want if you get there late now, you have to like butt your head into a group and try to get attention. And people are already distracted. They've met a lot of people. They have stuff on their mind like Yeah. Definitely don't get there late. Get there early before other people and then like people are desperate to meet with somebody else and then instead of bouncing around actually try to spend the whole event with one person and then and then so so this is like um you know I I I saw this I forget there's like some podcast but like like um dating coaches abuse this technique. It's called the venue change technique where when you go to multiple places with one person the person feels like they know you more. It feels like you've gone they like you could spend less time not a lot of time to together but if you are changing venues going to different places it actually feels like you have a closer relationship and the other person because it's more experiences it's more experiences and so I would I would meet people we would spend the event together then we would go for like a walk and then we would go out to and have dinner and then I would actually pay for their dinner and and I and something else when I would start meeting people, I wouldn't even talk about myself or who I was or what I did until they asked. I would just ask them about them. And then eventually they'd get so bored talking about themselves that they would that they would ask me about me. And then they would say then they would say something like, "Oh my god, I know somebody who knows SEO." And I'd be like, "Great." And that's it. And I wouldn't be desperate. I wouldn't be like, "Oh my god, give me their contact, please." Like I wouldn't I would just keep talking to them and become their friend. Then that we go on a walk. We'd go to a park. We'd go to a restaurant. I'd pay for them and and then like it would be just this solid funnel of referrals. And that was my method. Yeah. I'm over here like, yeah. Yeah. I think it's curiosity that gets people to trust you as a human. Like natural curiosity because like you feel good when people are interested in you. I would say I did something similar but in the online space. That's what I did online. I grew my entire business online. I did not do almost anything local. Uh I think it's because I thought that Buffalo was 5 years outdated and I was like I wanted to talk with people that kind of already understood the internet. And so that's essentially like what I did online. I would show up to like networking events and that type of thing and then I would have coffee chats with people online virtually. I would do service swaps in the beginning. So actually one of my favorite ones was with a PR girl. She was getting started in PR. I was getting started in SEO. We did, she created my PR plan, ended up getting me in entrepreneur, and then I did her SEO plan, ended up getting her on page one for like PR for entrepreneurs. And so it was like then we were just like microing about each other. So that was a huge way. That's amazing, too. And social proof is like the it converts so much better than you saying it about yourself. When somebody else says it about you, it's so much better than you saying it about yourself. It's so great. And like that alone, both of us kind of grew our own circles, but we were always referring back to each other. And so I just kind of kept doing that and like connecting with people. And who I would connect with mainly, PR people, website designers, and graphic designers, like brand designers. Those were my people that would send me referrals over and over and over and over and over and over again. Because you have to think when people are thinking about SEO, although I want them to consider me before they're creating the website, most of the time they're not. They're thinking about it when it's like they're getting close to launch and they're just like, "Wait, what about Google?" It's like, "You should have thought about me before, but here I am. We can come back in and kind of change some things." Um, but then they know about you for their redesign in three years or four years and that type of thing. And so getting connected in that industry adjacent type things will support you because also now that website designer feels like they're so helpful for their clients because they can recommendation to somebody that they actually trust and that they work with. And then when I have to make changes to the site, I reach back out to the website designer. Now they have like a VIP day to go ahead and they were making money off of the client by updating the site based on what I said. So how did you get how did you get those initial like so you did this all remote? How how like what what events? What like these were virtual events that you were going to? It was Facebook groups. When Facebook groups were popping, there was very specific Facebook groups for women business owners, women entrepreneurs. So I will say that most of my audience are women. Like I have a membership with 30 members. There's one dude in there. It's all women. And so still a lesson still still a lesson to take away which is find a relevant community and go hard in that community and show up for them and literally I just I became a source so people would ask questions. Do you do you do you niche yourself down for women specifically or or no it's just women vibe with you? It's women vibe with me. I do have guy clients too like the done for you foundational setup. I have like women uh website designers that will refer like their male clients over. People find me from YouTube all the time like that type of thing. But most I would say most of my audience is like mainly women, but I've never niched down. I don't think that there's anything on my site that's like women or female or like nothing like that just besides me. You just found a like women's women business owners group and you're like, I'm a woman business owner and here I am and I can help you with SEO. Okay. Yes. And I think I think it works so well because SEO is such a male-dominated industry that like me showing up and being able to break it down in a way felt less intense or like a lot of women have been they got burned by agencies. They were trying to use like really technical language and like the women were like you might have a woman who's nice and then and and she doesn't want to say no and you have this like hard selling agency and then now now she feels like she's been taken advantage of and she spent all this money on an agency who didn't do anything for her. But I mean there's a lot of there's a lot of and they didn't even explain it. There's a lot of people who aren't even just women who who feel that way who who have been burned by so many agencies. Yes. And so I kind of was just showing up. And I will say that like I've always been drawn to more of like that creative space. I was a fine arts major like previously. That's why I got into website design. It kind of combined like design school. So I feel you. Yeah. And it's like I think that that's why I was really pulled into this more like website design creative design community. But it was Facebook groups. I would literally answer questions about things and I realized that I was really good at breaking down complex things into easy to understand ways. That's when I started creating blogs because people would not stop asking me about things once they found out that like I was willing to give all of this information. So then I started creating blog posts and I would just send them the blog post. What if you if you were to like give advice to imagine like uh somebody on a different continent and they're they heard me talking about going to events in New York City and like well they're they're like I want to get clients. I don't have access to to New York City. Uh and and yeah, I want to I'm I'm in a I'm in a different continent in a remote town. What What advice would you would you give them to find a community to start getting clients? I would say one of the best things that you can do, and I know that it sounds counterintuitive at first, is pay to be in a room that's like very specific. So, I've also gotten incredible referral partners from like paying to be in somebody's community. So, like a social media manager, maybe she has a membership and so she's got 50 members in there. I pay $27 a month. I'm showing up to calls. We're going around. We're introducing ourselves. And now the host of that community who has an audience outside of her membership is learning about all of these things. I'm sharing things. I'm showing up. I'm being transparent. I'm becoming that source in that community. I think that paying to be in a room, it doesn't have to be like um No, it makes sense because the other people the other people show have are literally showing that they are willing to spend. Yes. And they're business own like paying to pay to be in the room for business owners. Yeah, I'm not going to pay to be in a room with people like crocheting things. Not that I don't want to learn how to crochet, but like I don't know that they have a business that they need. No, this makes this is literally like the life the lifelong lesson for for entrepreneurship and business, which is which is a niche down. It's like the same thing with me going to events and trying to talk to everybody and that doesn't get me anywhere and then I go to events and I pick one person and I just stick with them and and I create a relationship. And so you're saying if if you're a if you're a person in some remote town on a different continent, wherever you are, find a community and and don't spread yourself to other communities. Just go hard trying to help everyone in that community. And then people will start paying you to do their SEO, to do their digital marketing, to consult them, and you will have the craziest and you'll get referrals. You'll have the craziest top of- mind awareness. Yeah, it's so good. And then if those are your potential clients, now you're noticing all their questions. Okay, great. Now I have a [ __ ] ton of content that I can create. So I'm a chatty person. YouTube just made sense for me. That's how I've created my YouTube channel. I literally just answer questions that my audience has. That's what I do. And then I send them to them. I go, "Here's a YouTube video on it." Now it's not just me as like being an SEO expert that people are like recommending. It's my YouTube videos. People are like, "If you have an SEO question, go to my YouTube." They can go deeper. They can they can go deeper on your videos. They can binge. Yes. And then in my videos, I'm very intentional about saying I Yeah. When I was working with a client, when I was blah blah blah blah. So like a lot of YouTube people are just creating content because they're content creators. I'm very intentional about weaving in that I have clients, that like I work with people, that I have a membership. Not saying like these huge things of like come and work with me, blah blah blah. just naturally putting it in there so that people hear, "Oh, she takes clients. I'm going to go to her website. I What does it look like to be her client?" Like that type of thing. And so then my videos are helping people. They get to see my expertise. I'm showing up in YouTube. I'm showing up on Google. I'm showing up in AI search because AI loves suggesting YouTube videos for things. And it's like, and then people are seeing how my brain works. And then a lot of people are like, "Well, I don't want to create DIY videos cuz I don't want to attract DIY people." Half of the time people watch these DIY videos and go, "This [ __ ] is way more intense than I thought. I just want to hire somebody." And so it's it's just such a good place to be able to create long form content that shares your expertise. It brings people in consistently. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing doing it. How do you feel uh how do you feel about I'm sure you see this all the time. How do you feel about using AI to write SEO content? I from scratch. I don't I don't I I personally do not I have clients. No, I I I don't advise it either. I think I actually think I think it will create I I made an entire podcast about this which is if you let if you let AI write especially could be like a high intent page where if you do a high intent page, right, it will rank number one for many years and bring you customers on autopilot for many years without you having to do anything. And so like the and and and the amount of time it takes to make this page could be 3 days. So it's like a 3day time investment and then you have this money generating asset that just lives for years and years and years. It's like it's like magic. Now when you have AI write it from scratch. Now the AI has anchored you in its way of thinking. It's it's like it's like doing it's like doing sales and you try to anchor a lower price. So now the person is going to have their their mind and they're going to be arguing from the lower price up. It's like trying it's like and the AI wrote some bad piece of content and you're just trying to fix the content that that was bad from the from the get-go when you should have actually just like used AI as an assistant to make something good. Yes. This literally happened to me when I was creating my workshop workshop slides for a workshop that I hosted yesterday. I tried to use AI. I was like here's all my thoughts. Help me just like create the structure. I wasted three hours because it has anchored itself into something that I would never say. It made no sense. I was so frustrated I had to go to a coffee shop after dinner at 6 PM and literally work for an additional 3 hours to I was like be the human girl. Isn't that crazy the consequences? People really like underestimate the consequences of trying to overrely on AI. Like you wasted how much? Like you said 3 hours but it was also your effort, your energy, your willpower. My will to live to live. Yeah, it was it was pretty bad. It was a huge eye opener and then I didn't sleep that that night because I was like, "Oh my god, I literally you messed up your sleep then that changes the next day." And and that's when I was hosting the live workshop. I had and I was literally like, "Oh my god, lesson learned, girlfriend." Like, just use your brain and then use it to be like, "Hey, am I missing anything?" That type of thing. The main thing that I use AI for is repurposing my YouTube videos into blog posts. That's the main thing. And I like I try to have it use just my transcript and kind of do that. It still throws in [ __ ] that I would never say because it tries to like condense it. And I'm not a condensed person. So, I'm like, "Please stop doing that." But it doesn't listen. It does whatever it wants to. I would say that like that's the main way that I use AI in terms of creating content is taking something that I've already done a transcript on YouTube and having it repurpose it. But creating content from scratch, if you're marketing to other business owners, they know what AI content sounds like. If you're marketing BTOC, I do think that you can get away with it a little bit longer because consumers aren't using it as much as we are as business owners. If you're marketing to business owners, we're like, where's the soul? Where's the human? Where's your perspective? Once, and I don't know if this is happening to everybody, but once I know that it's AI, I almost like can't unsee it. And I'm literally like, I want to know your thoughts. And I know that you probably fed in your thoughts, but like I can't feel you. And if I can't feel you in here, I'm not buying from you. I'm not joining your email list because I don't know what I'm getting. Is it just AI regurgitated stuff? I don't want that. I want you. I want the human. I'm completely the same. 100% the same. I And I wonder and I I I I also wonder how many consu like how long businesses and the thing is the other the frustrating thing is a lot of it will rank. It it like it it is frustrating. It will it it will rank, but it just won't convert very well. And and and what what will happen is you might have AI written content rank for a low competition keyword. So like a higher competition keyword, it's really like Google is is going to be really looking at user signals. So, yep. Yeah. So, if if like someone comes to your page and they and they see it's it's AI written and then they they they pogo stick, they go back to the search results is really going to hurt you. Like, yeah. And so, but the but these lower competition keywords, it's like you're ranking with AI and now it's like you have a bad habit thinking that you can just keep using a like AI garbage that's not even really going to convert. There was a study that I actually just had to pull for my workshop yesterday and it was 82% of the content that is starting to get quoted in AI is human written. Say that again. 80 82 82% of the content that apparently that AI is like pulling and recommending and like all of that is human written. like they're trying to like program the AIs that are like finding you recommendations and finding you businesses to be able to support. 82% is human written. And so it's like it's almost like AI is noticing what it wrote and then it's like it's the same thing because I think that that's what people forget is like you're not the only one using it. You have 45 people that probably created a very similar blog post or a very similar script that you're reading on your podcast, which is now getting published to the internet, which is now retraining AI. So, all it's doing is retraining on mediocre stuff. And we're finding that like AI wants to quote unique perspectives, different perspectives. I do think that it's still hard. And I think that AI AI is stupid, right? Like it's not like an actual human. It's so stupid. And so it's just like it's just regurgitating stuff and then people think that it's like even if it ranks I'm just like but you're not getting the sale from it. So what was the point? Yeah. What was the point? Yeah. I I like uh I use it. Look, I use AI for writing all the time. The descriptions for the the description for this episode will be written with AI. The title for this episode will either be 100% made with with Tratchy PT or like I'll be like, I like this angle, change it towards this angle. That happens all the time as well. Or sometimes I just take the first the first recommendation for the title. Other times I I I workshop it for literally 10 to 15 minutes for the title. uh with my my weekly newsletter. I send a newsletter every week and then I will put it onto my website in my in my blog which is like forward/ articles. I sometimes I will try to find a relevant keyword that it that will fit the content of the article. Other times I will just tell chatpt like give me a cool title for this article and then I'll I'll workshop titles in the same way and and like so and I'll use AI to to rewrite specific sentences but but like yeah I will not use it to write the whole thing. I think I think the difference is you know your audience and you know what works. So even when AI is spitting things back, it's like No, no. I'm saying I'm saying I would just never I would just I would never make entire pages with AI. It's a like Yeah. And the description for this show is done for SEO and it's done for SEO and it's done to just to help users it's done to help viewers understand like what's in the episode. Sometimes people actually read the description, but like for the for the most part and and I proofread each description as well to make sure that they're all accurate, but like that's the thing that people miss. Like the description the description for this podcast isn't the podcast. Like of course that's and that's that's the thing. That's why I'm okay doing it. Whereas like other people like make their entire content AI. People like us, we can't stand it. I can't I can't do it. And I'm just like, well, may maybe it's because I'm more of a personal brand, you know what I mean? Like I've always I've had a hard time being like, hey, I can generate my content. I go, no the hell I can't. People hire me because it's me and because they can feel me in my writing. And like that's what makes it so frustrating. And so, like I said, maybe it's because the voice of my brand is the voice of me. And so it makes it very hard for AI, even with all the training, to sound like me. It can't. It doesn't have all of my experience. Mariah, what's one common SEO best practice that needs to die? One common SEO best practice that needs to die. I This is the one that comes up over and over and over and over again with clients. Focusing on image alt text when you don't understand how SEO works. Like I'll have clients be like, "I want to get this page ranking on page one. I filled out all of my image alt text." Really? It comes up over and over again, over and over and over and over and over again. I think it's because it's one of those like at pieces of advice that you know, update your image al text is in like all of the lists for like the SEO things that you should do. So people take that because it feels easy and then they think that that one thing is going to completely change their rankings for their site. I've had clients be like, "Well, I don't know if I need SEO consulting or SEO help because like I've already filled out all of my image all texts." Have you actually even actually had people say that? That's crazy. I swear. Yes. Because they don't understand like the new like everything that goes into it. They think it's just a technical list. Yeah, you're right. A lot of a a lot of business owners literally think SEO is just a technical list. It's just a list that like you have to check off. There are a lot of things that you can do. Like there is a way like you can systematize a lot of it but at the end of the day if you have a bad piece of content that people are coming to search from and then leaving and that's happening across your site you're you're you're done. Yeah. So it probably doesn't like the more advanced SEO people are probably listening to this and being like what do you mean people actually think that? But like yes like if you don't know the depth of SEO that is something I've had to put it on sales pages for things. I've had to put it in blog posts. Like I've literally had to call it out specifically, especially in the creative industry where it's um like interior designers focused on photos, where it's photographers focused on photos. So they think adding image alt text to their photos. Actually, oh, I wanted to ask you that. What? Yeah. So you said you have uh lots of photography like or Yeah. photography clients or artist clients. What type of SEO do you do for them? It's the same type of SEO. It's website foundational SEO. like they a lot of the time they want to put all of their services on one page. M so it's like it's that type of SEO. It's really the foundations and the strategy and like finding the keywords for the money pages and that type of thing. Ry, you're awesome. Thank you for coming on the show. Oh, thank you. Thanks. This is so fun. Thanks. Thanks for having me. This was fun. We Yeah, we talked about some good things. We were vibing. I had this uh amazing cold brew with kombucha and I got these like crazy ice cubes. I don't know if you could see it. like these full big ice cubes and I'm just sitting here having a blast and uh Yeah, this is fun. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Mariah. Where where should everybody find you? Yeah, I would say definitely check out my website, mariahagazine.com, and then check out my YouTube channel. You can just search Mariah Magazine. I should show up pretty easily. But all of your links in the description as well. Cool. Yeah, that's those are those are my two main places. Mariah Magazine. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you again. Uh, this is episode 1,073 of the podcast. 1,073 days in a row doing this show. Can you believe that? We are on a on a on a generational streak. We are on a insane streak out here. 1 173 days in a row. If you watch us on YouTube, thank you so much for watching. If you listened on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, thank you so much for listening. And I will talk to you again tomorrow.