Laravel Starter Kits: What's New w/ Wendell Adriel

Okay, we should be live. I'll give people a few minutes to join in before we jump into things. Um, but hi everyone. Happy Tuesday. I keep forgetting what day it is. [laughter] Normal. Me too. I was thinking today was was Monday and like ear earlier when I I I saw that. Oh, it's Tuesday. I was like, "Oh, nice. It's already Tuesday." I think I keep thinking it's Wednesday and I'm like, "No, I have another day. I have another day." [laughter] Let's see. Hi, RS Gamer. Welcome in. How are you doing? Hi, Mark. Yes, I have the jacket on. I have the mad CSS jacket. Oop, I almost flipped my desk. Hold on. I'll back up. That's cool. That's cool. I like the patch. The inside's really cool, too. So, it says syntax and it's like this quilted material. That's pretty cool. I know. I like it. I just scared my dog and I moved my desk and it's just like, "What are you doing?" My days are also messed up. And Wendell's at R2, apparently, cuz he thought today was Monday. I thought it was Wednesday. We're both off in opposite directions. [laughter] Maybe it's just a week thing. I don't know. But I'm also traveling this week. Like I leave tomorrow for Miami for React Miami. And so that throws me off. I'm very excited. Um, let's see. Mark says, "You know what helps with dust stability? Proper mouse placement." No, it does not. He hates I have my mouse in between my split keyboard. Like I put it in the middle. Hi. Um, Isan Isan, my welcome in. Hello. Um, hi Major Rushmore from Ireland. Welcome in. Yeah, I'd love to know where everyone's joining from. I'm joining in from Denver, Colorado. Wendell's joining in from Portugal. Portugal. Yeah. Yes. Vizil, the name of the city. Yeah. Very nice. What time is it for you then? Four, five. Here it's 5 5:00 p.m. Nice. For you it's 10 a.m. Mhm. Mhm. Okay. Nice. Nice. Yeah. I'm seven hours in the future. Yeah. Mhm. You're going to like the day. The day has been good so far. [laughter] Once you realized it was Tuesday. Okay. I have hopes and I have hopes for my extra seven hours to catch up. Let's see. We also have people from India. Hi, welcome in. Hi, Victor. Niha. Um, yeah, Mark's 11 and STL from Switzerland. Welcome in Skate CRA. 9:38 in India, which I'm guessing is nighttime. The 30 minutes throws me off. Yeah. Yeah. This is this is something that always gets me confused when I need to to check like time zones from India because it has like a 30 minutes and I was okay. I was not expecting that. No, it's like I did um a stream of push back and he was like we can do um he's like how about like 10:30 your time and I was like wow 30 minutes. This is kind of weird. And then I or he said I think like 7:30 his time. So it was like a 30-minute interval in his time. I was like, "Oh, that's kind of weird. We're doing it like at a 30 minute mark, but that's fine." And then I looked and it was like 10:00 a.m. my time. Like it because the 30 minutes and I was just like, "Oh man, that's it." Because even on World Time Buddy, it has to account for the 30 minutes. So it's like weird seeing it line up. It's not like as easy as the other ones. That's true. That's true. I don't know. Is is it like the only time zone that has a 30 minutes? There's probably some others. As far as I know, it's the only like big time zone that does. Okay, that's interesting. I mean, people please correct me if I'm wrong, but like out of all the time zones I've worked with so far, which are a lot, um I have not seen it again. Like I've not seen the 30 minutes again, but that's like the major ones, right? any of the Australia time zones, um, your time zone, UTC, London, because there's UTC time zones, but then there's some that are like an hour or two off. Like I think yours is an hour off UTC, isn't it? Or is it? Yeah. Yeah. Here, usually it's UTC, but since we are on daylight saving, then we are one hour ahead of UTC. UTC plus one. But when it's not on daylight savings, it's UTC. So for me, Yeah. [laughter] Uh, whenever Sydney, whenever someone says something about time zone, I I always get confused. Yes, me too. Hi, Richard. Welcome in. It's 2 2:09 a.m. tomorrow and in Australia already. Doesn't that blow your mind? Damn. Yeah. Okay. Okay, I guess we can go ahead and jump in um to what we're doing. We're not sadly we're not just talking about time zones even even though we we should do a live stream just talking about time zones. Leah and Wendel talk about time zones. It's like me and Joe, we are talking about like travel tips for like part of the cloud seal live stream last time and we were talking about like traveling because we had just got back from Laracon EU. Oh yeah. Yeah. But yeah, hi everyone. Um, I'm here today with Wendell to talk about the Laravel starter kits, which you might have noticed, but they've had a lot of updates recently, including team supports, which or team teams support, which I know a lot of people are really excited about. So, we'll be going over those updates today. And yeah, let's go ahead and jump into it. So, my name is Leah. If you've watched any of our streams recently, you probably have seen me on the channel a little bit. Um, but I am a developer relations engineer at Laravel and I work closely with our online communities and also go to a lot of conferences. So, you'll probably meet me in person at some point if you're at any of our conferences. Um, and I'm here today with Wendle. Wendle, would you like to do a quick little intro? Yeah, sure. Sure. Hey, everyone. Uh, it's very exciting to be here. Thanks for the invite, Leah. It's very cool. Uh, I've been working with Laravel since January. So I it's not a lot of time, some months only. But it's been quite a ride. It's been pretty cool. Uh, I've been working with Lar since the beginning of January. But I work with PHP since 2009 and with Laravel since 2015. Since Laravel five, I think. Yeah, five. Yeah, it's been a while, but just a little bit. I I'm old but but yeah it's been pretty cool to be working with Laro amazing people and uh amazing projects and I've been mostly focused on starter kits since I joined. So um that's what we are going to talk today. And you're on the open source team? Yes, the open source team. Yeah, exactly. I forgot to mention. Thanks. There was a lot to mention. I also forget that you've only been working at Laravel since January cuz I guess these what like almost five months have felt like a a year somehow. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's well a lot of things already happened. For for me it feels like longer than it was. It's been Yeah, it's been pretty cool. It's been pretty cool. A lot of things to do. a lot of of things to work on talking with everyone. So, it's it's pretty exciting and that's I think why it feels more than just these months. Yeah, cuz even just with the starter kits, we have Let me make sure. So, with the starter kits, with some of the updates, we have inertia v3 support built into them. We have team support for the starter kits. We also have toast notifications built into them. What else exactly? Um [clears throat] it's already uh longer than those but um it's also recent that we created these felt starter kits. Yes. So yeah. Uh and there are a lot of minor improvements that that that are being done during those uh those other releases but the major ones were were those and also the uh the create not creation but the public release of uh myst of which oh yes yeah that's released to the starter kits no I do have it in our doc too yeah see there's been a lot just in those like few months cuz I forgot spelt was also though what around February or March of this year. Yeah, I think it Yeah, I think it was around March, beginning of March, I think. Yeah. So, it's still relatively new. Yeah. Yeah. I guess before we jump into more of the updates, um let's take a step back for a second and talk about the starter kits in general. So, who are the starter kits for and why do they exist? Okay. Okay. So, um the starter kits are for like everyone that wants to start creating applications with Laravel. Starter kits are for any season developers or people that are just starting with Laravel. They are great for any anyone that's that's working with FL because they give some foundation for your applications. So you don't need to first spend time building things that are mostly common in all the starter kits and second you already get like opinions on how to do things. So uh the opinion part is very good if you are like starting that you don't know a lot about Laravo and everything. So you get already opinions on how to do things and also is very good right now in this AI era because the agents like that the codebase is opinionated. So there are already a specific way for doing stuff and the starter kits provide this foundation for the work for those that like more to build like things from scratch. don't want a lot of opinions on the on the codebase. Um, and these like let's say variants of the starter kits are not as used as the other ones. But we also have what we call the blank starter kits that just gives you just the installation and configuration of the stack. It can be livewire or inertia, but they don't provide authentication or anything. They are just a blank slate. If you want to build something from your own taste, you can use that. But if you want those things added on, authentication and everything, the full feature starter kits have all those things already created for you. No, I think that's a great answer. And it's funny because I do sometimes do no starter kit, especially when I just want to build something with like Blade and Alpine, but then I do use the React starter kit a lot. [snorts] Yeah. Yeah. For Yeah. For me, I use like the live wire start again. I use a lot and and the view one I I'm a Vue guys since long time. [laughter] I need to pivot. I like I don't need to pivot and not use React because I love React, but I need to like use Vue some just for fun because I've been doing fullstack development for like four over four years now and I've basically been React from the beginning. That's good. That's good. React is very powerful. But yeah, I I've been using like View since it didn't was the first stable release. I remember first time I built something with Vue, it was like 0 something. So was not even on stable release and I was already using it. So that is funny. That's so early. Also, I think my first dabble into Laravel was Laravel 11 and yours was five. Uh Mark said, "I like the tooling around React more, which is odd because I hated React for such a long time." Yeah, the tooling around React. It I mean, I love Vue. I really love you and to build with you but [laughter] but sometimes I get a little jealous about the tooling that that React has because there's a lot of things that we do have something for Vue or other frameworks but there's a lot of things that we don't have on on on other stack that we have on React. So yeah, I think that's why we use React um as much as we do at Laravel now too because of the tooling and the more like mature community. Yeah, exactly. Um but also for the starter kit, so we talked a little bit about it too. Right now we have starter kits for livewire, react, view, spelt, and then we have a no starter kit which is like just just starting without a starter kit. So no off or anything like that. And we talked about it earlier, but the spelt one is pretty new. It was from around March of this year as well. So that's kind of part of what shipped recently for starter kits. But let's kind of get into more of the updates that we talked about earlier. So like the inertia v3 updates, team support, toast notifications, all of that. Um, if you want to give like a highlevel explanation of like the recent updates and work you've been doing for the Sure. Sure. So uh, one of the major that that you mentioned is inertia v3. Inertia v3 it's it's a major release for inertia that brings a lot of improvements for the applications and uh with the starter kits if you are using uh the starter kits you already get a lot of benefits from inertia v3 out of the box when you are using it for example if someone has um an application that used the starter kit before inertia v3 might remember that for the two factor authentication. We had for example um a helper function that was created inside the starter kit. It was fat JSON or something like that the name and when the inertia v3 was released it has the new use HTTP hook or composible that makes it much easier to do uh requests that that are not like don't need uh redirection don't need navigation. So uh this was completely replaced with the use HTTP and um the configuration itself for the starter kit if you check a configuration for the application before uh for example the app.tsx TSX or the TS depending on which version you are using for React or or Vue. You're going to see that there is much more configurations that were needed manually in the application configuration setup than what we have right now with Inertia V3. And one of the greatest things I think like Pascowitz is is a genius man. [laughter] That guy is uh it's the um it's the SRR that now works out of the box in development and we don't even need another configuration file for it in in in the starter kits. So those things make it easier to work with inertia and brings a lot of of other things uh other improvements. Uh, for example, another very great like feature from Inertia V3. It doesn't have anywhere right now in the starter kits using it out of the box because it was not needed so far, but um the Oh, now I I got a blank screen on the name of the feature optimistic updates or Yes. [laughter] That's what I was thinking of when you were talking. Yeah. I was like, "Oh, okay. I know it's something update, but what's [laughter] the wording before update? Optimistic updates." Yeah, I I think it's like an amazing feature to have in applications for the start. It's doesn't have like we didn't have like a great use case for it yet. Maybe we can add something later with it, but but it's another amazing thing with Inertia V3. And now all the starter kits that that you uh you start creating since inertia v3 was released it already goes with inertia v3 out of the box with everything configured. You don't need to to do anything manually unless you need some configuration for your application. That's uh something different of what's already bundled in in in the application. But it's it's pretty cool. So that's that's one of of the features. The other thing was the the teams feature and this one was pretty cool to work on and um it seems like when it was released a lot of people were like like really happy to get that. I think a lot of people were waiting on that because we had uh teams and other things before like on jet stream and everything but since Lar moved away from uh not away but it's not like it was not using anymore like the Laravel UI and those other things that were uh linked with Jetream. uh they didn't have a way to have like the the teams out of the box uh for the starter kits these new starter kits and now we can you already have it. So um we created the teams feature and uh it was a feature that was created based on lessons lessons that uh we learned from cloud for example when creating teams and managing teams on cloud. So uh when I was working on on it, I talked with Joe and Joe pointed me to some people to the cloud team that I talked with them on how we could add the the teams in the starter kits without adding too much complexity. However, giving already a very good foundation for people that wanted to build uh an application with team support. So for example um if I'm not mistaken on Jetream team themes are not uh based in the URL and right now in the starter kits the the teams are all based in the URL and that was something that was uh one of these lessons that uh we learned with Laravel cloud because when people wanted to do uh to for example manage uh two teams at the same time in different tabs or to share something with someone, they couldn't share the exact page that they wanted. For example, if I wanted to share with you Leah the uh the usage of u of resources on cloud, for example, if the the teams was were not in the URL, I couldn't share these specific teams usage resource with you. I was going to share like a generic URL and you were going to go to the current team you had selected but having them in the routes allow this so people can share easily and uh they can even work with multiple teams at the same time like in different tabs if if they want to. So that's why uh we uh we decided to go in this route as Laravel cloud does and I'm just talking about it because I I already got a lot of questions in in text before why we were doing like themes in the URL. So that's why I got you. That makes sense. There were some questions too that we've gotten so far that are like general. Um, also Mark had said, "I added some enome support on the back end for inertia render." Talk about that when you were talking about inertia v3. Um, yeah, that's cool. Liam had a question. He said, "I feel like over the years the base Laravel/ Laravel repo has been getting thinner and smaller, but the starter kits have been getting more bloated." Oh my god, my slack just like glitched out. Okay, sorry. [laughter] But the circuits have been getting more bloated obviously for customization. Any thoughts on this? [snorts] Yeah, like um what we've been seeing is that like the Laro Laro Laro what we call the Lar skeleton itself it's getting thinner since I think since start of Laravel 12 it started to get less things less configurations out of the box there. But um these starter kits as you said like for customization and for bringing more options more features for uh for developers so they don't waste time creating those things they are getting bloated with more features but I I don't think bloated in a bad way like I think the the um the path that the starter kits are going are good because they are providing uh a more solid foundation for creating applications. I think it's good. However, uh as I said the starter kits they have like the variant. So you don't need to bring a full thing if you don't need for example with the installer you don't need to bring all the teams functionality into your application if you don't need themes. So uh the teams had a lot of like files, controllers, enoms and things into the application because it needs for the management of teams. If you don't need that, just don't select it. If you don't want like the authentication, you want to build your own authentication or do anything. The starter kits have a blank starter kit version of every starter kit. That's basically the Laravel Laravel ripple only with the installation of that stack on top of it. So if you go with LiveWire, you're going to see that it's the same thing you have in Laro Lavo. However, with LiveWire installed and configured for you. If you install a React starter, a blank React starter kit, it's going to have the same thing, just that welcome page with just the inertia uh configuration u installed and configured. So you can start creating your own things. So it has options for all kinds of of things you want. If you want the all the features, you can get it. If you want just a subset of the features, you can get it. If you don't want any features just uh like an empty slate with things configured, there is an option for it as well. How would you get the blank starter kits installed from the Laravel installer? Is it just you would install that starter kit but you would say no to off so it doesn't bring in Fortify and then you would say um no to the teams and all of that. Exactly. Exactly. So I if if you go in the installer and and you select no for the authentication probably it's not even going to ask you for teams because for teams you need the first file or work OS. So when you say okay I don't want authentication that's how you get the blank starter kit for for the uh the stack that you want and we have blank starter kits for all the starter kits that we support liveware react view and spelt if you want to start just a blank slate you can do that and then you can build your your own thing if you think that it's bringing too much stuff that you don't need. You're right. It did not ask me about Teams if you say no to O. I was testing it. Uh, but yeah, I think that's a great call out, too, is that you can just install the starter kits, like the blank versions. You don't have to bring in Teams. You don't even have to bring in Laravel Boost if you don't want to. You don't have to bring that in. You don't have to bring in O. You can leave that out and then it'll be a smaller scaffolding of the starter kit versus having everything in it. Yeah, exactly. Um, and then, hi, uh, Paulo, welcome in. Let's see. I also think that was a great call out about the team support too, though, and about the URL stuff cuz that makes sense then why you did it that way. And I also love that you talked to the cloud team and learned from stuff that they ran into, right? So, you didn't have to run into the same things. And it also allowed you to come up with this where you can just like share the link, they can click it, and they go to the right team and they're able to see the views. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that was one of the decisions that we wanted to make during the the creation of the of the starter kit and I think it it makes a lot of sense when I talk with the cloud team. I think it made total [clears throat] sense to add it to the URL. I think like just hearing you talk about it, it makes sense to me, but it's also not something like I question, but then hearing it's like, "Oh, that makes sense." Because otherwise it would default to whatever team they're on or whatever else, and then they're having to like more so navigate to the correct team to see the view versus just being able to click a link to go to it. And then also, do we talk about toast notifications? Oh, I don't No, I don't think so. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, those notifications were also something like that. A lot of people already talked with me even with push back uh about those notifications that they wanted it in the starter gates because a lot of applications need some sort of those notifications, right? Almost all applications that I worked on, we need some some sort of those notifications to uh to say that something went well or something went wrong. And um one of the things that we didn't had it before was because um on livewire for example we use flux UI and the toast component was a paid component. So we didn't want to for example add in all the uh the inertia starter kits and then make liveware just not using toast or creating um a toast component by hand since it's not going to look and feel the same on how the flux works. So uh we decided to postpone it and recently uh Caleb made the toast component for Fluke 3 and that's when we thought okay now it's time to to go back and and think about the toast notifications then when we implemented them and I think it's a good addition to to to the starter kits as I said most of the applications I worked at so far need some sort of notifications like that and now it's very easy to to to work with them. With LiveWire, it's just calling the Fluke toast. And with Inertia, we have a composable and a hook depending on which uh starter kit you're using. Plus, Inertia has um has a the flash that just patchs data once to to the UI. That's a great use case for those notifications. So, we already uh linked all of those things. So you can use uh the the toasts in all of the applications whatever kit you are using. I also linked your tweet which is the lovely one. Um let's say this one [laughter] we all love toast right this was tweet about adding toast notifications to the starter kits. I love the toast gift. [laughter] Yeah, I love I love I love toasts, especially French toasts. [laughter] Any toast. Exactly. I don't discriminate. Um, no, I think toast notifications, it's really excited that they're exciting that they're added to the starter kits now cuz I feel like I've always had to add toast notifications almost everything I've worked on. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Almost everything that I work with so far needed those notifications. So I think it makes sense to have it out of the box for everyone to use. We also have some other um questions I want to go through before we get into Maestro. And then also if there are like other questions from people in chat about um n teams or anything, but I know Jimmy Hansen had one of is there an easy way for updating your starter kit? Yeah, that's a question that's asked a lot to be honest and we already started discussing a lot of things internally to see how we can make this easier for everyone. So far that is not like an official way of uh of updating the starter kit after you um you create an application. The easiest way right now I would say uh it's using an AI agent. For example, let's say that you have um a react or a livewire application that started with without to post notification or without other feature that you want to bring in. The easiest way it's you create um a new application with Laravel new with the uh stack that you are using. Let's say LiveWire. I want those notifications from LiveWire in my starter kits and I and I created my start my application with a starter kit that didn't have the notifications. Create a new LiveWire application. Don't do any changes on it. Just create it in your machine. then open an AI agent and ask like, okay, I have this LiveWire starter kit in this path here and I want to bring in the toast notifications feature to my application and I already tested sometimes with different starter kits and it worked pretty well. So for me that's right now the easiest way for doing it. Right now there is no official way like official come or something that you can use. This is the easiest way for doing it. We are still discussing like for the future what we want to do with it. However, we don't have an exact um exact approach that we want to do as an official way for updating the starter kits. So for now you can use this. Mhm. I wonder if it could be made into like a boost a boost skill or something. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's something I was thinking recently to talk with push back that maybe we can do like a skill to to to do it. Uh like push back already created amazing skills to update for Lavo 13, for LiveWire 4, for inertia 3. So I think it makes sense. Which reminds me, I'm trying to scroll up. I know Mark had a question. Um, and there was another question for you that I want to get to, but um, Mark had said, "Random question. How would you upgrade to V3?" This had to do with inertia to V3 if you have clients that build their own theme using V2. Is there anything in the upgrade that would cause the backend to not work with the front end? Um, I think the easiest way for you to do this this this upgrade is using the boost skill that we were uh we were discussing. Uh, push back creates an skill that's to update uh inertia from v2 to v3. So if you run that skill in your codebase, it should already flag if there is any breaking change in your codebase that needs changes and it's going to apply those changes. Easiest way is that. However, uh I can't say 100% by memory. However, I don't think there is any breaking change in backend code for inertia. I don't think so. But docs, I'm not 100% sure, but I think the docs would be a good place to check too. Um because you can go I shared the link for this one. Um, but you can go to the upgrade guide for V3 and then it shows you what's new and it should show you breaking changes too. Um, and I would think going through this you can see if there would be breaking changes with the back end as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's a great way. Yeah. But uh the easiest way it's that skill in boost. The skiing boost will like probably help you update your application in 10 minutes or less depending on the size and complexity of the project. But in 5 10 minutes you should have it updated using the boost skill. Do you know where the boost skill is? Like where any documentation about it is cuz I think it's somewhere in the docs. I just can't remember. Uh yeah, let me let me check it if I if I find it pretty quick. Uh uh hi Serilla, welcome in. Um Mar also asked, while you're looking that up, are Forge and Cloud inertia apps or pure React with an API backend? I believe Forge and Cloud are both inertia apps. I know Cloud uses React. Um, Forge uses Vue still. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think they are they both are inertia applications. I believe Nightw Watch is too with React. Inertia and React. hi Tech MB. Hi Emanuel. Alwin, I'll ask you a question of one second. I have Wendle cooking away looking up some other ducks. I don't want to distract them. [clears throat] Um, but Wendle, we do have some questions. We have any future plans for the starter kits and we have why Laravel, why is Laravel removed the API starter kit? So, I think I think these are good segue into stuff we're ending with. [laughter] I I I didn't find it. The talks. Yeah, you didn't find it. Okay. I'll post about it later if I do find Okay. Okay. Okay. So, yeah, those are two great questions because it's something that I've been talking with Leah before we even jumped uh in the stream. it's that um one of the last projects I've been working on, it's actually an API starter kit for uh for Laravel. And if you check my estro codebase um the pull request are already there. They are still in draft. We still need to review, refine, make sure that everything it's it's how we want it to be. uh we still need to get more feedback from internal users and everything and so we don't have an estimation when that's going to be released. However, an API starter kit and I know this is something that um a lot of people want and a lot of people need. I we just got another comment about it in the middle of talking about it too. Yeah. Yeah. We can we can we can and we are going to have it. So um I can say a timeline right now. However, if you want to take uh let's say a a deeper look or have like a preview of how it's going to be, you can go to my Estro. Uh that's the code base we use to uh to maintain the starter kits that we are going to talk about in a few. But there you have uh actually two pull requests uh related to the API starter kits. one that's a base uh API starter kit that's like with the authentication everything that's needed and another pull request that's adding teams feature to the API starter kit so yeah we are going to have DPI starter kit back probably we are going to have teams support in the API starter kit as well however I can't say dates right now but soon so Yes, API starter kit is is being worked on. It's planned and you were talking about for Maestro, right? Okay. So, let me kind of link that G repository and we will talk about that in one second as well because that's also a newer thing that has to do with starter kits. Um but that repository is GitHub github.com/laravevelmastro and that is the repository that window was saying that his PRs are open on as draft PRs right now. Let's see. Alwin had said on documentation where can one get more detailed documentation on the starter kits more detailed than just the laral.comdocstarter kits? Um, depends on what kind of documentation are you talking about. I don't know if it's about features or anything. I don't think we have like a breakdown of all the features and how things work in the starter kits like in in in a page and maybe Leah that's that's can be an idea to add a better uh detail page for each starter kit with some more information. Uh but I if you want to get more information if you go to the myestro codebase for example um I created a skill that to help me or any maintainers for the starter kits uh to understand better how the starter kits work. So if you go to the myestro codebase there is a skill called myestro in that you can see the structure how the starter kits are structure um in in terms of of organization in code in uh features and those things. So you can get a better overview on the starter kits with this mastery skill. However, um I don't think we have like a deep documentation of all the starter kits and all the features each starter kit has right now. Maybe it's an idea to to to improve and work on. Yeah. And I'd love to know [clears throat] I'd love to know what you'd like to see in the documentation for it. Like what more detailed documentation would you want? Would you just want the breakdown like Wendle said of every feature and such that's in those or the ones you can bring in? Um, yeah, because that's definitely something um like an idea of something we could potentially do. I'd just love to know like what you would want it to have. Okay, I might see if it'll come back. My StreamYard was bugging out. It won't let me unpin comments real quick. Okay. Okay. It's like frozen. Um, I might refresh it. Hold on. Well, I'm scared if I end stream if I refresh. I don't want to do that. Okay, one second. Um, Alvin did say like for example, the toast I was not aware of. Okay. So, I think it's just like adding the features that are available in the documentation and keeping it like updated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another another thing it's uh when we do release of major things usually um either the Laravel account or someone that works in the open source team is going to post something about it on either X or LinkedIn. So those are also places that you can you can check and um Laravel has also uh change log and change log page uh that's a monthly uh change log that that that's released that uh the uh let's say like the most major things that are released uh are also listed there. So it's a good place to to to keep up to date. man. Yeah, my computer's being weird. Um, and Liam Mos said, "I periodically check the commit history of the starter kit uh repositories to see what changed since I last updated my app, which I think is great, too." And now you can check the Maestro one instead of having to check each individual starter kit, too. So, I think this is a great time to talk about what Maestro is. Exactly. Exactly. Uh okay. Uh so um my Estro was um a project that I started working on that was basically uh we had a lot of different starter kits, right? We had when I started we had uh three major starter kits because we didn't have the at the time. So it was LiveWire, React and Vue. And we also had the blank versions of them and also the work OS versions of them that's using more OS's authentication instead of Fortify. So um there's a lot of variations on the starter kits. right now after uh the teams uh the teams feature was okay [laughter] the teams feature was released we had 21 different variants of the starter kits so there's a lot of things there's a lot of of variants to to to maintain and usually what happened before myestro was for example someone added did a change or an improvement on uh Livewire or React or View starter kit. And then uh we uh in the open source thing we needed to check if that change or that improvement was needed to be done across other starter kits and across other variants of the starter kit. And then we needed to create a lot of pull requests just to mimic that uh fix or that improvement from a specific starter kit. So for like for the long run that's not maintainable because we want to create more things like we added we added teams now we are working with the API starter kit so having all those things in different repositories and need to maintain them separately it's already like a pain point so the idea was to create a process where we could centralize the management of all the starter kits and that's when myestro um came out as an idea. So myestro is basically just an orchestrator application that um that allows us to maintain all the starter kits in a single place and how it does it for it creates an hierarchy of files uh across the starter kits. So for example the inertia starter kits the inertia starter kits the main change for them are the front end because the back end code should be the same like the controllers should be the same they should return the same data everything should should be the same just the presentation layer that's the should be different so um without mystro if we needed to update something in a controller for um view or For React, we will need to create pull requests in all of those repositories for all the variants of the starter kit. But with myestro, the files that are common from starter kits, they live in a single place. So um we don't have the duplication of the file because that file is the same across multiple starter kits. And uh another thing that's very common is for example uh the config files from Larvo. Usually they are the same across all the starter kits. Doesn't matter if they are live wire or inertia for example an al configuration or a database configuration it's the same file across every everyone. So if for example laro 13 added a change in one of those files we will need to go in each of those repositories and change that file and create a pull request for it. With my Estro, we change that in one place. We create a pull request to my Estro and when something is merged into my Estro, my Estro pushes all the changes to all the starter kits that are affected by that change. So if my Estro sees that I'm touching a file that's used that's common for LiveWire, React, Vue, and Zelt, it's going to push to all of those starter kits at once. if it sees that I'm changing a file that's like on React for example and it's a common file used by React by the teams variant of React or even the blank version of React it's going to push to all of those variants on React and doesn't push anything to the other starter kits that are not affected. So that's basically the idea behind myestro. It's to orchestrate, centralize and make it easier for uh us on the open source team, but also for maintainers to contribute to the starter kits. And I also pinned the blog post that you did with Anna on talking about um Maestro as well. Um, and if you notice, like if anyone um here in chat has tried to contribute to the starter kits, if you notice that you can't contribute to them, we still allow contributions on the starter kits, but now you go through Maestro to contribute to the starter kits. So, you can still contribute to the starter kits. Just make sure you're going to the GitHub repository for Maestro. And also like I said earlier, I think this is a great place to go to see the changes being made to the starter kits as well. Um, but I'll also look into how we can update the documentation one. So I do appreciate that call out as well. Um, and tech envy also had said for me cuz I think this had to do with the documentation different stuff too. Um, for me I think it would be helpful to have a better understanding of Fortify and how to hook in the user creation process or login. Sometimes I don't want to totally change what's already happening but just add sprinkles add in sprinkles of other functionality. Yeah. Yeah. Fortify like Fortify it's an amazing package for authentication. It's very powerful out of the box and it allows us to to to implement things on top of Fortify and um like I can't say much. However, [laughter] I do know that we're preparing content around Fortify that's going to be released. That's going to help uh a lot on those cases. If you need to customize, for example, the starter kits to do something on how Fortify does or extending or even replacing what Fortify is doing with another thing. So, um I don't know when it's going to be released. However, I do know that um there are people already in the U Laravel uh team that's creating content around that. Also, if you would ever like to do a YouTube short or something on that as well, I could upload it to the YouTube channel. So, let me know. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. [laughter] Cool. Because I think the more content the marrier too on anything that could be helpful like that and in different forms of content too like a blog or a stream or you a short YouTube video or like a short. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We can we can we can do it for sure. Yeah. I'm screenshotting all this stuff too. I'm adding it to a doc because these are great ideas. Um and then let's see. Okay, I think there was another question with the app of starter kit. Oh, this is interesting. Um, how can we automate the app of starter kit to keep update the core code with starter kits GitHub? Okay, so yeah, that's one thing that we already touched base before on that and uh this is one of questions that that usually are asked most right now. We don't have an official way of doing it as I as I mentioned before. Um the easiest way right now it's doing it with an AI agent like create a new Laravel application from the stack that you are using. If you're using React, create a new React application uh for example uh in a new directory and then you can ask the AI agent, okay, check this repository here and this path and bring this functionality or these other functionality that are in this repository to my application. I already did it on some uh applications that I had uh uh side projects from my own and it worked well. So I think it's it's it's a good thing since a lot of people have the same the the same like say issue with updating it. Leah uh said that and I think it's a great idea we can talk with push back to create a um skill boost for doing it. Yeah. So I think it's it's going to be a good idea for for because it was asked again too. I thought what was interesting about Sheruno is um the automate part like asking how he can automate it. I thought that was interesting cuz I wonder if there is a way to actually automate that as well where it would like even if it was a skill it like pulls it in and then it would like run the skill every so often. Um like I was saying the automation part which I think is really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Like if we if we man if we manage to create that that skill I think that you could you can just run it set something to run it like every know every month or every um every I don't know every week because don't push a lot of things every week but at least once in a month to run and and and get the um the new the new features the new changes. I think it could be a good idea. I think so, too. Um, I don't think I've missed any questions. If I did, feel free to call them out, anyone in chat, or repost them in. I think we've Okay, sorry. Um, I think we've covered the updates and stuff. Um, and then we also covered what you're working on, I guess. Is there any So there was a question about towel did mention they are working on an API only starter kit. So the API an API starter kit will be added. Um no promises on date but there is a draft PR for it open on the Maestro GitHub repository. If you want to look more into that you can look at that draft PR already. Um what other updates can we expect to see to the starter kits? If there's anything else you can share. If not, don't worry about it. Sure. Sure. Um, there is one that's already as a draft pull request even before the API starter kit, but we are planning to update the starter kit to use vit plus to tools instead of eslink and everything. Uh, we didn't do it yet because um it's still like in an alpha release. So we just wanted to wait a little longer to make sure everything is going to to to be working as expected, not causing any troubles for anyone creating applications. But probably very soon we are going to do this uh vit plus uh change and something that I forgot because it's so recent that that I just remember now but yesterday we released for all starter kits introducing the new package from Nunu called POW. that's to improve uh the token usage uh with AI agents when you are calling anything from past to pint to PHP unit to even artisen commands. So it trims out the uh the outputs for those comments when they are running inside an AI agent uh context um and make it easier for the agents to understand and consuming much less tokens. So this was something that was released yesterday. I forgot until now, but [laughter] it relates to this. Um, Jun said, "The latest contribution to Maestro seems to be from the one and only Nuno Maduro. Cheers to that awesome dude." And yeah, exactly what exactly. Yeah, it was it was this one. We added pale as as um default in all the starter kits since now I mean at least I don't know. I'm not going to say 100% but I know at least 90% of people are using AI tools. So it makes sense to include that out of the box in the starter kits especially in the last few live streams I've done that have to do with um AI and agentic coding with Laravel 2. People are asking like how can I reduce my token usage? How can I efficiently use AI agents? And I feel like PAL is a great way to do that. I want to test it out myself too, but based on like what Nuno said about it, I think it's the perfect solution for that or like a great tool to use. And so it being included by default into the um starter kits, I think is amazing. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I'm happy that I remember to talk about it. Yeah, [laughter] me too. You said it and I looked at the chat the comment. I was like, "Oh, it's great timing." Yeah, it was so it was so recent that I I I didn't even remember. But yeah, we we [laughter] got it. Too much going on. True. Let's see. I think we did a great summary of the starter kits, all the changes. We answered a lot of questions. If anyone else has questions, uh, feel free to drop them in quickly. But I think we're going to start kind of wrapping up a little bit. Um yeah, so you mentioned we've talked about the major updates we've had recently. We've talked about the spelt starter kit that was relatively new, the updates um for inertia v3 support, team support, toast notifications. We talked about Maestro um which is an orchestrator that allows you the team to kind of keep the starter kits in sync. So you would do the update through Maestro and then it would send them out to the relevant starter kits. So anyone who wants to contribute would need to go through Maestro now and they can also read this blog post to learn more about Maestro as well which I have linked right here. It's on the Laravel blog. Is there any else you want to say about the starter kit like about the updates or why they're important? Um any kind of last last words about all [laughter] of these? No. Um I I think that uh at the beginning I said that starter kits are good for everyone. Doesn't matter if you are just starting out on development with Laravo or if you are already like a seasoned developer with years of experience. I think that uh in this AI era that we are on right now um agent coding uh goes very well if you have like um opinions in your code and the Laravel itself is a framework that has a lot of opinions that's why AI is so great with Laravel and the starter kits just add a new layer on top of that so it creates opinions from the scratch for your applications. Either if you are using it only for authentication, you're going to have already um base code on how an authentication should be, how the code should look like. If you add teams, it's going to add more things in your code base. It's going to add some actions. It's going to add some enms. It's going to add some concerns, some traits. So it gives the AI agents already a solid foundation on how they are going to create and build more features for your code. Not only that, but if you are doing code by hand or if you are learning, these are also great sources to learn how you could do something X or Y. For example, if you never created um team uh teams management uh before, you can just like clone create a new application with teams uh go into the codebase, check the code how it is, and then you can learn how how those things are done. So, it's also a great source of learning. So, um I think that's it. It makes me think um of like when you're playing like Mario Kart and like Rainbow Road and stuff and you can play the mode that kind of like keeps you on the track where it like boosts you back on the track. I feel like starter kits are kind of like that because it's like you kind of have like rails there, you know, like you have other code you can look at for like guides on like how to implement certain things instead of you trying to build it all from scratch yourself. So that also helps with agentic coding like you were saying because it can look at all the groundwork. It's not having to use more context or think more of how to do stuff. It's looking at the existing code and especially if you're using boost too. It can bring in different skills like we have the Laravel best practices skills uh skill now and using those skills and guidelines and stuff like that. It has more of an idea of how to do things without wasting a bunch of context and tokens and stuff like that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's that's I really like the [laughter] the comparison with with Mario Kart. I mean, I'm looking at Yoshi behind me and behind you and I'm like thinking of like me on Rainbow Road and I'm like getting boosted back. [laughter] Yeah, I have a Yoshi here as well. Love that. My little one's squishy though. The other one's the popcorn bucket. So, it's plastic. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This one is just a plushie. [laughter] I love it. And then is there any specific feedback the team is looking for with the starter kits? Like are you looking for feedback on the team support or anything? Anything specific or just in general? Yeah, we are always looking for like feedback in general of what's something the starter kits doing that it could be doing better or that's not doing or something that you think should be done different. So those things we are always looking for since the teams feature uh was recently released. We are looking into feedback more specifically into that how uh how this is working for you is it working well how if if something it's getting like in your way when you are working on teams from the with [clears throat] the starter kits. So those kind of feedbacks are are going to be very good for us. Oh I have here a special guest. My baby was [clears throat] sleeping. She's [laughter] sleeping. I love that. I saw the cat. I was like, "Wait." Okay. Yeah. She She likes to to to just go around here. Let me check if I can get Hey, say hi. Say hi. She's so [laughter] She's so cute. And where would the best place to provide this feedback be? Like would it be to open a PR to the Maestro repository or open it as an issue? Yeah, if you if you have um an idea or um something that it's not working correctly, you can create an issue on myestro. We are going to look into it. If you want to if you have like um an idea to implement something for the starter kit, you can create a pull request directly on myestro. We are going to reveal it uh and see if we can add it or not to starter kits. So um the the central place for the start right now it's on my Estro. So um either with issues or pull requests you can go into that uh repository and uh you are going to be able to either send feedback or provide contributions or bug or bugs like fixes or just saying okay there is this bug here. [laughter] We love those. Yeah, I think that's great. I also linked the repository again, which is here. This is the repository we're talking about that you would go to to open an issue or a PR if you have a fix as well. Um, and where can people find you when you're not on stream here? Like where can people contact you or find you online? And do you have any other closing remarks? Yeah. Uh if anyone wants to talk anything about Static, it's Lar software development general. You can find me on the social media I'm usually like more checking on. It's X Twitter. You can find me there. It's X.comwendo Adriel. I don't know. Yes. Thanks. I said [laughter] it. Yeah. Yeah. Or in link or in linkadin. You can also find me there um searching for window. I don't know how many windows are there. Shouldn't be that many [laughter] but uh you can you can find me there. And if you want to um read something about um Laravel PHP or uh software in general, I also have my personal blog uh in my website. I usually post there um sometimes write things uh mostly about Laravel and and PHP. You can you can check there as well. And yeah, and that's it. Thanks, Leah, for for inviting me. I have here the special guest. [laughter] Yes. No, thank you so much for being on stream answering some great questions. Um one second. I'm trying to get a link here, but I've also pinned all the links that you mentioned in chat. Thank you for being here and for talking about the starter kits. Thank you for all the work you do on the starter kits, too. I know it's very appreciated. Um, and for everyone who's here, our next stream won't be until next week. um either next Wednesday or Thursday, I'll post about it, but it will be with Chip who is over um marketing websites at Laravel and he'll be talking about how he upgraded the Laravel website or migrated the Laravel website from Blade and AlpineJS and a little bit of LiveWear to use React in Inertia. And it was using Inertia V3 before it was in stable release. So, he'll be talking about that on the stream. used AI for it as well. So talking about kind of how um agentic coding was used for that migration as well which I think will be really interesting and a really exciting um stream. But then also anyone who's in the New York se New York City area, we are doing a another Laravel road show next week as well on April 30th. So next Thursday and it is in New York City at the AWS building. So, if you are near the area or you're interested in going, um, you can go to this Luma link here to register for that. So, please register for that if you're interested. And if not, I will see you next week hopefully for the stream I'm doing with Chip. Thank you. Bye. Thanks. Bye. Bye.