Laravel Worldwide Meetup - I Didn't Know Laravel Could Do That

Heat. Heat. N. Hey, hey, hey. Who are you? Heat. Heat. Hey. Hello world. We are live. Welcome to this April 2026 edition of the Laravel Worldwide Meetup. My name is Dan Sapelsa. a developer at Vehicle and along with my co-host Margot Tvaris, we are thrilled to once again bring you an awesome presentation from the Laravel community. And speaking of Marggo, how are you doing today, Margot? I'm doing pretty good, Dan. How about yourself? Doing pretty well. The weather's a little dreary in my area today, but uh other than that though, that's things are looking bright both in terms of our presentation today and some stuff coming up uh in the Laraveville community and otherwise. So, speaking of that, before we get to our presentation, let's go through some of the stuff we have going on in our community. What do we got here? Awesome. Thanks, Dan. All right, we got some great resources. So, if you haven't heard about them, please check them out. So, if you go to laravellenews.com, it's one of the best ways to stay connected to what's going on in the Laravel ecosystem. So, they do a great job covering some releases and everything that's going on each week. So, check them out. Um, and you can sign up for their weekly newsletter as well at laravelenews.com. Uh, and big thanks to the Laravel News podcast with Jake Bennett and Michael Dinda. We also have the Laravel podcast. So, some new episodes this month. So if you want to take a look, Matt Staver had some chats with Dave Hicking and Jason Begs. A lot of things going on with Laravel Cloud. So check them out at Laravelpodcast.com. And for Lar jobs, it's a great resource if you're looking for some Laravel developers. So or if you're looking to post a job as well um and all your Laravel job needs, you can check them out at larjob.com. We also have some community uh companies that are looking for some Laravel developers that we want to give a shout out to. So, College Strategy is looking for a full stack engineer and they're currently looking for someone that is in the US. Um, and also patch stack is looking for a lead engineer is velocity is looking for um remote in Canada. And also all calls.io is also looking for some help. You can find out all the information and links to description for the jobs in the uh description on YouTube after the meetup after the live meetup. Up next, we have Larara Casts, one of the best ways to learn about Laravel. Um, so huge thanks to Jeffrey Way for building such an awesome resource and you can check it out at laircast.com. And I also want to give a quick shout out to the Laravel community. So if you're looking for more events that are happening around the world, they're just like this, you can check out community.larbell.com. Uh, it's a great way to stay connected. And you can also have if you have an event or a meetup that you also like to share with the community, please check out that link. There's a great link to um a great form to be able to fill out all that information and get your event on there as well. Also want to shout out Laravel's story. So, if Laravel has changed your world in some way, check them out at laravel.com/stories and share with Laravel community. Um, Taylor has a couple questions for you. So, if you'd like to share with the community, please check it out there and um get your story heard. Also wanted to share a great event that's also happening today at 2 PM. So, if you are somebody or if you work on a team that's looking to um move over to Laravel Cloud or the private cloud, there's a company in the community called Govai that wants to share their story with how they've done it. You can check them out at 2 PM and the link will be in the description box below now if you want to take a look at that. And also big thanks to Vehicle for our hosting and sponsoring for this meetup. Uh they have a great team of developers. So if you're looking um to solve a Laravel problem, their team can be very happy to help you out. So check them out at go gove vehicle.com or check out their website vehicle.com. We also wanted to do a quick giveaway as well. So big thanks to our sponsor jetrains. Um, so you can scan that QR code and up until May 5th, we are going to be um, taking all of our responses and we'll contact the winner and you can win a one-year subscription to any Jet Brains IDE. And that's what we got going on for our community announcements. I'll pass it off to Dan to introduce our speaker for this month. Thank you, Margot. Uh, the gentleman here in this hat, as you can see, is Jim Sak. Uh, Jim finds himself as a senior developer advocate by day at Vonnage. Uh, and he's here to uh, share his presentations here. I didn't know what Laravel I didn't know Laravel could do that. Uh it's going to answer the question. What is a CPASS and more moreover what can connecting a CPASS to your application uh do for you? So without further ado, let's bring him in. Here he is. Jim, how are you today? Hello. I love I love the the intro quick banter of like I can tell you two are not American. How you doing? Got a bit of a bad back at the moment. The weather's not that good, but I'm looking forward to this presentation. That that is not that's like you are not from the United States of America. Yeah, you're getting home. You can feel the rain in the back. Yeah, that's that's Yeah, it's Oh, it's it's all right. You know you know God kids didn't go to sleep early last night. There's sunshine in my day regardless of the weather was what I was trying to infer. It's it's we've got we've got uh we've got we've got spring here. My flowers are coming up which is good. I've got my solar powered fountain that's on and that's doing that's doing really well. Apart from the the birds really like it and um they love going to the toilet in it. Um but apart from that there's a lot of cleaning to do but apart from that the fountain's good. That's awesome. Thank you for joining us today, Jim. We uh we appreciate it. And uh yeah, without uh without further ado, if you wanted to go ahead and share your screen, uh we can go ahead and hand things off to you. And uh Margo and I will step backstage. I I can do that. I have to do something first. Sure. Obviously. All right. Do I mean you you didn't think it was not going to happen, right? This is a surprise for us. Everybody I don't know if it's a surprise for me. I've seen this I've had the pleasure of seeing this in person. So, right, let's actually uh let's actually share the screen, shall we? Um, there we go. Amazing. All right. There we go. Well, Margot and I will step backstage and it's all yours, Jim. Thank you. All right. Good night. Thank you very much. Um, both. Uh, thanks D and Margot. Um, they now they've gone backstage. They must be absolutely relieved by now. Um, welcome ladies and gentlemen, friends and enemies, boys and girls. This talk is called I didn't know that Laravel could do that and I am James Sakond or Jim depending on whether you want to use my government name or my informal name. Um this thing because this talk because it's I didn't know I could do that. There is a um there is an American um American it's become a kind of a meme a TV show from PBS I think. I don't know about that many American things called um the more that you know and so it's a bit like that of I didn't know Laravel could do that the more that you know and it's accompanied by a sound hold on I didn't know that Laravel could do that here is the backstory behind this talk I didn't know I didn't think I was going to write this talk um because it comes from it comes from what we what we call in things like developer experience where we're a company that the Vonnage is a company that's writes APIs for developers to consume. You sort of forget that there are people new to this kind of thing and people don't know about what it is that you do or why or things like and you just sort of forget about it. So this comes from me being at the Vonnage booth really. So when we when we sponsor conferences, this is me in Sweden in at DevSum um last year um trying to look cool but failing. Um one of the qu one of the questions that I got asked a lot a lot about and one of the things that I'd assumed is CPASS which is what this talk is about. I just kind of assumed that everyone knew what it was because we all go on to the new hotness, you know, we go on to we go on to liveware, we go on to reverb or we go on to Laravel Cloud or we go on to and and you know, and this this comes from years and years of PHP development back when serless was a thing and breath php and swool and swool even now I've got a new hotness where they've got some sort of random I say random some binary that they've just released that compiles. I don't know what it I don't know what it is. It blows my mind. And so PHP developers come to me at the booth and they're like so what is it you do? And I'm like well we did we do comm we do CPASS right? What's that? Oh I I sorry I thought everyone knew. So rather I'm going to go back in time and revisit what if I did a talk of just what it is that we do. Um because it it kind of blows my mind that I just thought everyone knew you could do this. So Cass, it's um everything. There was a there was a time 10 years ago where everything was a pass. Gym as a service. Jim as a Jim uh uh Jim's bad jokes and the hot dog hat as a service, etc. It stands for this communications platform as a service. And all of the people that watching this that don't know what a CPASS are like, that's fine, Jim, but you sort of sound like a corporate entity that's saying like, "Oh, we must leverage the things. We must leverage all the things and harness the power of AI. So what does this like actually mean? It means this. It means your Laravel app can do communication stuff. Did you know that? And you can do it pretty easily. I'm not going to say I'm not going to say it's very very basic because you can choose your fighter. you can do stuff and we're going to see the integr integrations that are like fairly straightforward and then there's stuff that's mind-blowing and it's the first time that it's really been demoed especially to a Laravel audience but to sort of anyone really. So I've not said who I am and I'm wearing a hot dog hat and I will continue to wear this hot dog hat. If you want to know why you have to go to verscon php look that up. Here are my things. I'm on blue sky. I'm on the PHP Masterden. I'm on LinkedIn probably the most probably the most out of everything. And then don't look at my as I always say don't look at my um my my GitHub because you don't want to see my terrible code do you? Why do you want to see that? It's not even my code anymore. It's Claude's. So let's do an outline of what I'm going to talk about. What is CPA? I've said what it is and I've said like your Laravel app can do stuff but what is it? I'm going to go through the PHP SDK. That's the Laravel PHP SDK. And then there's a Laravel facade as well for it, which is kind of cool. RCS and WhatsApp verify and silent authentication. If that sounds like something from a spy film, you'd be right. It's ridiculous. Networkpowered APIs. Field use cases for the kind of things that I'm talking about. To my audience, I.e. you. You may have a new project. You may be in an agency where you're taking on a new client. So, I want to give you sort of vertical markets and things like that. Why vonnage? Um I mean yeah sure you know I I represent my company but there is a reason for it you know why why I'd say that and then this quite important for me for the Laravel audience is the startup program that vonnage has so number one what is CPASS communications platform as a service it is these APIs we have a voice API which means that you can create an entire call center programmatically using REST APIs that's what it That means you can also have voice recognition, you can have text to speech, etc., etc. You can have um verify is the next one which is two-factor authentication. And if you're not using two factor authentication in your apps, why what's wrong with you? Um messaging. So messaging started off with SMS, but now we have RCS, we have Viber, we have WhatsApp, etc., etc. So we that that's an API where channels are being continually added to it. video. We have an entire video API that lets you just build your own Zoom if you want to and we do that primarily I would say in the healthcare industries where people want oneto ones with their doctors and things like that. And then the big one really I would say the thing that's going to secure like it's going to be Vonnage's kind of future is security and we'll get on to why that is but security via networkp powered APIs and what they enable you to do and yes I will explain what those are. So what you do is you know you go to because it's because it's a it's a platform. It's a cloud platform. Uh you create an account. When you create account you get um you can claim a little bit of credit. Ask me if you want a bit of credit. We'll talk about the startup program where you get more credit but that's different because you have to apply for that. Here you go. Here's a dashboard and it has a dashboard of like you want to purchase virtual phone numbers. Do you want to like do you want to play with the messages sandbox? You want to do all your look look at your logs etc etc. There's loads and loads of there's there's loads and loads of features that are available here. They're too numerous in the dashboard to sort of go through them, but I'm not here to talk about the product from that perspective. I'm here to talk about the the the code, the integrations, the stuff that as Laravel developers, you're interested in. So once you've signed up to the platform, we have an SDK. Now the Vonnage PHP SDK, I'll give you some links in a minute. And the Laravel facade that wraps it um is is been handwritten by us for oh 10 plus years now. Um where we try and do best in class. It's all obviously all of the tests are in place. Um it uses a it uses a kind of service discovery service container to link to different APIs of which ones you want to use. But essentially for you, you just pull it onto composer, put in your keys, your credentials, and then you've got your your back end sorted. So here's two links for later. That's the core on the on the left on the left on the on on your left on your right. Who knows? It's the it's the internet. Who knows? And then there's Laravel. So Laravel, I think we've just updated it to actually be compatible with 13, I think. Um, and I'll show you how simple the two how simple it becomes when you use the facade uh for for Laravel specifically. So for instance, this is making an outbound call and it's adding an action. So you create an object called outbound call. It's from this number. It's to this number. Um, you create an it's created an action there which is talk. It'll go this is a text to speech call from Vonnage. You can use obviously much nicer voices than the one I just did. You set the NCCO on the outbound call object and then this is the bit where the PHP SDK comes in. So client so that's a preconfigured Vonnage client where you've put the credentials in voice i.e. that's the API I want to use create outbound call and if you run that code it will then dial your phone and you will then see your phone light up and it will say or whatever it is that you've put in there. So, some of the magic of CPASS is actually like testing this and watching in action, which I love, which I which I genuinely love doing. Um, there we go. Thank you very much. They vehicle vehicle have just looked into it and gone, "Yes, you can do 13." I'm pretty sure. Thanks to Chris Tankersley for that or Chuck if you're listening. Um, so the Laravel facade bit simplifies it a little bit. The last line instead is you now have a a facade. So you're calling a static method a voice create outbound call that will create a call for you. Lovely lovely um voice I've not done too much kind of talk about it in in for the code or promoting it lately but then but then this year and last year this happened and then when this happens you realize that voice is suddenly really important. So, like if you're toying around and you're thinking like, well, I want a voice API that recognizes things like what if I could like give what if I could give Laravel cloud deploy commands and then get Laravel Laravel to deploy on the cloud for for a version. Yeah, the age of AI means that voice is now, I would say, more relevant than ever before. If you've got ideas about that, then hit me up on LinkedIn or hit me up on on Blue Sky, etc. because we're always look because the amount of influx of ideas that have coming off AI workflows now are kind of massive. Um for the people that are skeptical, don't worry, this is not an AI talk. Um the sorry now you know that's the kind of stuff we do just like you didn't know about the Sony PlayStation. So, the Sony PlayStation was actually um it was it was Nintendo that commissioned Sony to make the Super Nintendo CD ROM just like so uh just like um Sega had commissioned the Mega CD. And they were like, "Make us a 32-bit thing." And so they did and they started work on it and they did really good progress and they were like, "We can do like full motion video and things like that." And then some third-party game that Nintendo were that Sony had published that was on the Super Nintendo contained a vague reference to Donkey Kong. And Nintendo were like, "You've got to pull that. You've got to pull that. You got to you can't have that." And Sony were like, "No, no, that's that's all right." And Nintendo went, "Fine, fine. We're pulling the plug." So they pulled the plug on the Super Nintendo CD. And so what you see is Sony decided to res basically just release the results anyway and that is what the Sony PlayStation is. Let's go on to the next one. RCS and WhatsApp. What is RCS? It stands for rich communication services. Now this is a really interesting development within tech within technology. So WhatsApp in the WhatsApp in the PHP SDK WhatsApp has quite a few objects that you can send. So like you can send location and you can send audio and you can send video. The thing is you've been able to do that in the back end as part of communication services on your phone for quite some time. 2007208 were the first RFC's that actually drafted that up but no one was really interested. So which was kind of okay. But in 2015 with the advent especially of Cotlin i.e. Android and then Swift via iOS officially adopting RCS as a standard meant that it's now accelerated loads. Um I've just seen actually there's a guy called Jack that's in the chat and he's just said hello. Um I'm going to give a shout out to him because um he lives like about um about half a mile away from me. Um so RCS you can is now behaves like WhatsApp naturally on your phone, right? So when you go into your messages app on your smartphone, you can do stuff like im like video and things like that, right? So it's kind of like it behaves a bit like WhatsApp, but it's SMS, but it's not SMS. So like I said, it's been accelerated since about 2015. You can send images, videos, prompts, locations, and you can do them on both. So, if you want an example of something quite cool and cutting edge, I wrote an article last year called RCS messaging with Laravel, Live Wire, Reverb, and Echo. And yes, because I had reverb and echo, if you don't know, it's using web sockets. So, you basically end up with I'll just let you take a take a moment take a moment to let the air in. Sometimes I need to breathe because I don't really stop talking. Um, you end up with something that's I'll show you the code and then I'll show you the front end. That's basically it's a WhatsApp clone but with with with a messenger. So you have your desktop app version. Um and then the end user device has their their own their own thing where they're messaging back to you. So I've configured a client here. Um I've done it via the Vonnage facade. So you get config vonnage application ID. You've already created that in the dashboard. It's kind of as straightforward as this. I have a variable called RCS message. It's an RCS text object which is in the PHP SDK to from the message and then send it. Lovely. And then if you want to consume an the reply from the device, you've configured an open route into your Laravel app which hydrates web hooks. So this is an example from the open API spec of an incoming web hook. And that web hook says here's a message. So what I would do is have a like conversation ID, a UU ID for with a conversation and you'd assign it everything that's coming in. You'd work out a path routting wise and it means that you have a conversation going and you have multiple conversations going. Cool. There it looks like on the front end. Um like I said, go back to that QR code if you took it. Um and yeah, I I made a I made a WhatsApp clone in my in my in in my in my Laravel app. Um because that's what I do. I love it. Um, good fun. Good times. Um, what's next? Unlock my phone. The more you know. You didn't know you could do that before. Which one's this? Ah, yes. The creator of Pringles was cremated and buried in a Pringles jar and then put into the ground. There you know. Did you know that? No. Did you know your Laravel could do RCS like that? No, you didn't. Me both. Now, prepare yourselves. It's going to get a little bit feisty. Verify and silent authentication. It's a bit space age. Um, when I talk to people in the booth about two-factor authentication, which is what the verify API is, and they say, "I don't know about two-factor authentication." You're lying. You're lying because I can sell you it. I can sell you two factor. Everyone should have two factor authentication. Everyone if you say no then you know I don't know it's as uh it's it's just like claw code leaking their code everywhere. That's not good is it? Everyone needs that. You need security. Don't lie. I know you need security. Um so verify and sol verify and silent authentication. If you use the boilerplate stuff, uh if you use the the starter kits with Laravel, you you do have an option for 2FA, which is kind of hardcoded in um via the Google authenticator 2FA. So yes, you do have that, but I'm I come at this from a friction point of view. And a friction point of view means that the end user does have to download and set up Google Authenticator before it will work, right? But we don't do that. We're an API that handles the 2FA process for you. But it has configurable channels, multiple channels, and a fallback system. So your 2FA can happen via email, RCS, voice, or WhatsApp. For instance, if you forget your password, if you sorry, if you've not logged in for a while at say a an incredibly famous source code site where they store source code, but I am not allowed to name for legal reasons, and then you try and log in and then you get a text message. Who do you think's sending that test message? Um, no more on that. I have an NDA, but silent off. Now, we're going to start getting a little bit funky, but the good news is here's one I did earlier. Um, you can scan this QR code and get the integration of Vonnage silent authentication, which I built into the starter kit for the scaffolding that they do for the user. You know, when they build out the it builds out the user, you do the migrations and you have everything built in and you even have forgot password and tokens and things like I built it in. So, yeah, I'll go through it. the I'll go through the I'm only going to skim through it um because I can't go into detail. Um there is actually a talk that I did for for Vonnage internally um that you can find on on on our YouTube channel vonnage devageev if you want to check it out. the integration. It hijacks I created a middleware um I created a silent middleware and it hijacks the login process from the boilerplate starter kit that you're given and it attempts to route you through silent authentication. You'll see that in the code in a minute. If it's not supported because your territory or your provider, i.e. your the f the phone that the person is on on the device is not supported. It goes okay not supported. I'll send a text message instead. That's only my choice because of the demo of the code. You could make it instead you could have a WhatsApp prompt. A prompt is even funkier than just sending a WhatsApp because instead of sending the code it says is this you and you can choose yes or no. Nice. The important thing with silent authentication is number one it is your phone as a password. How do they do that? The reason why Vonnage can do that is because we are owned by Ericson. So therefore what is happening underneath is we're analyzing the traffic from the device to prove that it is you and that comes through either the carrier the signal that comes through on the line or triangulation. We're doing all of that stuff and it's like your your phone is just your password. That's what it is. However, the trade-off is it's difficult to implement for a developer. I'm not going to lie about that. but also it's completely frictionless for your end users. It's a trade-off. So, it looks like this. It's fun, isn't it? So, you send you you basically got your own back end and you get a request with the phone number, but the important thing is you set up a route to handle silence authentication. So, a redirect URL which comes really from JavaScript before you've sent it. Then it does you can see that there's a check URL which is this is the thing that comes back to Vonnage and then there's a request ID that we create for you once you hit it you tell JavaScript to consume it and hit it. It gives you a request ID in a code. So if you think about it in invisibly what it's actually doing is when you get a text message saying here is your code 1 2 3 4 and then you put it in the it's actually doing that automatically but using the network traffic as your authentication. Is it mad? Yeah. Yeah it is. Um uh the rest of it it checks the code you do the rest of the authentication and then it result and then there's a result. So yeah um pretty bad. It's there's a handle method in the middle there. The basics are I've put is this the first time logging in? But I've also there's more code later which is have you logged in in the last four days. If not then we repeat repeat this process. But it rroots you to a page that says login via silent orth which is that redirect root silent. So I'm going to I'm going to hijack the the flow and say you have to do this first before I'm going to authenticate you as a user. So then you click the button as the user. That's that's it. It decides for you whether you've logged in or not. It'll complete it. If not, no. Doesn't like it. You've got a fallback. Otherwise, it will say, "Well, can't do it because it's not supported. Instead, we're going to do the old traditional way of sending you a text message on the phone." Pretty cool. Um, here's the actual controller itself. So it gets the redirect URL which comes from JavaScript which is something that you have predetermined the phone number that the user put in silent author request which is in the PHP SDK send it off with the redirect URL so Vonnage knows where it's going to send a call back to and then off it goes and then it does a try catch. Um if not if there's an error because you're not supported then it redirects to the SMS route which is the traditional um way of doing it. Um, so yeah, funky. Oh, it's running out of time here. What's this one going to be? Ah, yes. If you are really unlucky and you take a knock on the head, then you might you might end up I mean you re really unlucky here. You might end up with foreign accent syndrome. your accent suddenly becomes foreign. You start speaking like a Frenchman or a Dutchman and that can just happen. You didn't know before that you could do all that stuff with silent authentication and now you don't. Now you know about foreign accent syndrome. What's next? Network powered APIs. Let's go mad. This really for a REST API within HTTP. This is the next gen stuff really. And under the hood, what Vonnage is doing is leveraging the power of Ericson because we are owned by Erikson and Aduna. I'm not going to explain what Aduna is, but four and 5G traffic that you are using on your web apps is now possible to do security stuff with them because we have the power behind it. So, it's a suite of essentially security tools. Sim swap, you will be able on a supported network to be able to send a request to Vonnage. This is this is this still blows my mind that I'm trying to write demo apps that do this. You send you send a phone number to Vonnage and it tells you how long the SIM has been in the devices phone. Is that nuts? I I think that's nuts. Location verification. We've got a blog post coming about that soon and I'll talk about that. Roaming, whether the device that you're talking about is actually roaming at the moment. Location retrieval is where is the device? We're going to triangulate it. The location verification is is this person where they say they are or are they using a burner SIM? Are they are they trying to spoof an account? Something like that. There's loads of security options here. So for developers, you as Laravel developers, what this means is new security options. So this is don't anyone this is top secret. Um, and it's top secret because I've uh this blog post has not been approved yet and it hasn't been published and therefore I'm not allowed to to show you this at all. But what I've done is I've I've hacked the boiler plate for Laravel. And when I say hacked, you know, I I I put the Vonnage logo instead of the Laravel. Don't judge me. Don't judge me. Um, but I've added two fields in there. Really important. Cellular phone and city. This is an example app, right? So we'll get into the kind of use cases of where this kind of thing happens, but it's an example app. So it's just to show you the capability of what it can do. For some reason in my app, and it's very important this, for some reason, you can only sign up in this Laravel app. If you are right now when you create your account in the city that you say you're in, city, post, town, however it works for your for your territory. Similar kind of thing. you know you have basically sort of levels of addresses. So how does that work? There's in the code there's two methods in the controller I wrote vonnage ericen location and geocode location. Number one vonnage ericen location. Give me the phone number. That's a that's that of the person that's trying to sign up. I'm going to stitch together. I've missed some some of the some of the code out because you don't need to see that and also it's too long. Basically, I've configured a I've configured a client and a curl client. So, which has the endpoint you can look at the open API specs at any time for this URL which is the endpoint for the for the for the for the device the device retrieval the device location retrieval API. Oh, right. Um, so the von URL, the phone number which comes from the from the form, and then how old you want it to be. I've put I've put a default in there. What comes back if it's supported is a latitude and a longitude as floats. So I return that as an array of floats. When I say I return that as an array with those things, don't ever do that in production. Ever. Don't return a gen a general array. Please, data objects, objects for everything. Please, no. I I've I've had my time where I'm like, what's this array? This array is sausages. Please tell the developers what it is exactly that it's supposed to be. And then the second part is we have a latitude and we have a longitude which are type hinted in as floats. And so we now use the PHP geocode API uh package. And with open street map uh this was almost zero configuration um I wrap each level. So I wrap the client and I wrap it into a provider and then I create a stateful geocoder which says what the provider is what's local that I want it in i.e. English. Choose choose your choose your weapon. And you do what's called a reverse query, which is I'm going to give you coordinates and then you are going to tell me the address of those coordinates. And that's how it pulls it out. In the return, you can see that there is an array. Don't ever return anything as an array. That's terrible, Jim. What are you doing? It's a demo app. Stop judging me. Um, uh, right. Let's crack on. Get locality. that brings back the city, the post town of wherever it is. So then we stitch it together. You get the bonnage location, you get the geo location. Then all you do is if city is not equal, and I'm doing a string to lower to make it match to the city that came back. No, you can't sign up. What I've done there is I have just used triangulation with Erikson's network. Can be other networks depending on what territory you're in. I've triangulated your Laravel code to where you are standing to within maybe about 10 mters of whether you can sign up or not. And and come whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to crack on now. Um, which one is it? Oh, I like this one. This one's great. So, I live in Hail Zoen on the outskirts of Birmingham in the Black Country in the West Midlands. And there is a forge, there's a steel forge just up the road. And that steel forge was until the project leader of this was assassinated by Mossad in 1990. We were making a space gun for Saddam Hussein. Did you know that? I mean, you didn't know about silent authentication and you didn't know about the fact that we can triangulate the device for your Laravel apps. You didn't know that, did you? And we were building a space gun in Halzo. Halzo is always famous for at one point being the nail making capital of the world. And we made buttons. There you go. What's next? Field use cases. Okay, so you as developers, there's decision makers within Laravel depending on what actual field that you are in. This is important. So I'm going to be a bit brief about this because there are sort of obvious ones. So there's an entire security suite like I said there's SIM swap. You've seen the location the device location retrieval. These are most important I would say pretty much for anything where there's sensitive data or there is or there is data where it can only be the transactions can only happen if they're controlled fintech and health. If a client comes to you, if you were working for an agency and they are a fintech and they say we need these security protocols, Vonnage can do that. There you go. Um, health likewise, health very much rather than security suite, I'd say video quite a lot because you know one-on- ones with um with with doctors and things like that. Location based services, bearing in mind that that location API that you saw can geollocate you. The important thing is what happens if you wanted to actually be sort of polling and streaming traffic checking all the time. I mean you can do that if you add react PHP to your Laravel app or if you look at the work that further analytics do and how much data they process for instance then yes we are capable of dealing with millions of requests a minute that's that's I know it seems a bit of a lie that PHP is slow that's entirely fabricated and not true anymore streaming platforms. So streaming platforms, you are not permitted to use these titles, for instance. You're not those titles are only available in this territory. You've got a geoloccator and the geoloccator doesn't work on uh on the um on the GPS. GPS uses a lot of energy. HTTP requests over 4G don't. So you've got quite a big advantage to the user's device. And then high traffic other stuff. The one I've gone for is pretty logical. I would say IoT where you've got millions of data points per second. Um for that you'd have to really sort of bespoke Laravel stuff but like I said with the work that Fathom do it's possible um or you could be bad and do microservices. No one needs to do that. Don't don't don't do that. That's that's awful. Um that's my opinion. Um other opinions are available. Why Vonnage? Sure. Sure. I work for Vonnage and you're watching me as a Vonnage employee do this employee do this. So I'm going to be careful about this. The salesy bit is okay. It's backed. We're backed by the Ericson network. So therefore, some of the stuff we're coming out with is kind of almost impossible for other people to do. But that's not why I'm here. It's not The reason why it's no fluke that I'm on Laravel Worldwide Meetup, right? That that that isn't a fluke at all. Why am I actually here is because Vonnage and then its predecessors through Nexmo which you might have heard of which is a London startup back in the day which was acquired have a long history with the PHP community a very and a lot of prominent people within the PHP community have worked for us. This is this is the long game of what we do and what I do is putting back into the PHP community as much as possible. I mean I personally um I donate to the PHP foundation itself every month because it gave me my job and my career and so in sort of giving back representing PHP as a community to vonnage I need to make sure that I represent Vonnage to PHP. So the real reason why is that you know we are fairly heavily invested. I mean we have an actual partnership with Laravel at a community level or at the moment right now. So yeah, that that's kind of important. It's my job and you know technically putting myself on the line here, but we have commitments to the future of PHP and to Laravel specifically. If it doesn't work, then it means I haven't done my job properly. So why von? Yeah, it's because we put a lot of effort. Um but also I'm not going to say just use us because you know it doesn't work. That's not how business works. Um so yeah, the last thing did I do? Oh, I thought I thought I did a last the more. You know, I like to keep my talks a little bit more short and concise because I'm um kind of insane and people have um kind of checked up on me when I pretended to faint on stage in person and and said, "Are you okay?" And I said, "This is normal." Um I my um dissertation is in standup comedy and I and I studied in theater in drama. I'm a trained actor um with with a hot dog hat on so I'm really really serious. So to to to stop myself from the nonsense I'm I'm I'm spieling, we have a startup um we have a startup program at Vonnage and I'm quite I would say I'm say like I'm I'm quite proud of the work that's that's that Rachel and our team and and Autumn have put into this in that really the idea behind the startup program is to make it really a a best-in-class and I know that the moment I'm pushing this towards the Laravel community because I know there are so many green field sites, startups that are choosing Laravel because of the rapid development that you get from it because that's really where Laravel kind of shines both in its documentation and the speed and the speed of prototyping. So it's for early stage startups that you that have any need for communications APIs. That's all the ones that I previously mentioned, but it's up to $75,000 in in API credits over two years and with technical support that's bespoke to you. That's in my book, you know, pretty pretty good. Um I you're going to have to you're going to have to I've made a complete boo boo because I completely forgot this. Um I wonder I wonder if I could actually like hack this together. I reckon I reckon I can actually. I've been sent the QR code except I didn't include it on the slides. So can I dig it out last minute? You can tell this is a meetup talk and not a conference talk. It's like the most least polished thing ever. Um, oh, but I do wear the hot dog hats. Um, I do wear the hot dog hats uh when I'm doing conferences as well. So, can I can I Right. Let's uh Yeah. Yep. There we go. There we go. Right. There we go. I made it happen. Um, there we go. Five, four, three, two, one. There we go. There's the link. That's how you apply. Thank you very much. You've got a No, no, don't show that. Don't show that. I don't want the people to see that. Uh, yes, there is one. There is There is There is one more. Here we go. Oh, I'll I'll enjoy the noise this time. Ah, that one was more relaxing. I was trying to sort of hurry up the last one. Um uh the more you know this one um I have to end with my my favorite one which is that in Ghostbusters Winston Zedmmore was played by the actor Ernie Hudson. And Ernie Hudson then applied to the real Ghostbusters when they turned it into a cartoon. And he applied to play Winston Zedore because he played Winston Zedmore in the Ghostbusters film except they rejected him because they said that he did not sound enough like Winston Zedmmore. And there you go. And you didn't know that. And you didn't know about the startup program before. Knowledge sharing is always key, isn't it? Really. So, thank you very much. I will take the uh this the sun isn't shining at the moment, but I've protected my head. I have been Jim Sicon hot dog hat bow. Thank you very much for listening. Here's a load of stuff that you didn't know through CPASS. And they're there. They're there to rescue me. Once I was left hanging when I did one of these and I was just there like smiling with this grin like, "Hello, please stop me talking." They're here. They're here. Good. We're back. Well, we were never we were never far away, Jim. Right there. Right there waiting for you. Oh, great. Thank you for a very I I do know a lot more than I did uh at the start of that presentation. As do I. And some some of it about uh web applications and uh and web APIs. Uh so, thank you for a very engaging and informative presentation. It's a it's a difficult topic because because my mission personally is to empower Laravel developers and so I have that fine line of did you did are you aware of the products that we have without saying I'm I'm not a salesman I'm a PHP dev that's I've been doing it for 15 years so you've got that kind of balance to do for sure other other competitors are available but I won't name them so there you go Exactly. Yeah. I think we were talking about this a bit uh yesterday. We were chatting and uh and saying that you know it's maybe some of those services you mentioned it's you you might might well work in an application that doesn't just doesn't need them right. Uh but when you when you do need them and some of them like you know some of the use cases there are very specific but I but I have a feeling like if if I was working on something and I needed that that would be very handy to have. Um, and like I sort of said, the easy the easy in always for me, especially if I'm at a booth or booth or at a conference, it's 2FA because every app needs it really. Um, so the bes the v video um, voice and stuff like is very bespoke to which like depends what market you're involved in. You might you might have no need for it whatsoever. So yeah. Yeah. No, and I think it's it's about uh so many of these things for me as a as a a developer and someone who works in Larvo quite often and works for a company that that works in Laravel quite often. It's just like knowing what's available so that when that conversation comes up with a client, I have some confidence that I can reach for something and reach for something that's sort of like uh a community supported thing like uh like the SDK that you pointed us to uh that I know they can I'll feel confident in solving that problem. So, so it's it's about education of what's out there and then uh you know putting that in my tool toolbox and then reaching it for it when I need it. Uh which which might not be all the time. But as a general question you mentioned at the start there Jim um talking with people at at the booth and then not knowing what CPASS is. And I'd imagine it by nature they maybe know what it is. Maybe they're less familiar with the acronym. Uh but in your in your experience like what is this is a very general question. What is like the biggest miss like either applications not using a CPASS at all or maybe applications using a CPAS but not leveraging at all can offer. Does anything stand out to you as like this is a really people are missing this opportunity a lot? There's kind of there's two bit there's yeah there's there's there's certainly there's certainly a lot of I mean obviously that I get lots and lots of observations from talking to lots of developers because that's kind of my job. Um the first the first bit is that the I I I started off with the CPASS stuff on purpose because it's an industry term and it always and everyone goes what are you talking about? So I do that on purpose because it's then I have to explain it because my job is to unacronize everything because like we we we do we do tend to sort of talk in jargon. If you want to see something really really amusing um type in type in that this is this this is a classic sort of gym thing to do and go completely off piece but I will come back to it. Um is if look at the the deote agile landscape version three and it's an image and you look at it and go what's that? It's just words just like CPASS is just a word, isn't it? Which is why you get the translation of it's communications, right? It's telco stuff for your Laravel. That's what it is. Um I think the observation I'd have that is that people reach for the the most kind of obvious use case that I have seen um I worked at um before Vonnage uh for about two years. I worked at a Shopify agency and one of their one of the most used apps that they kind of maintained was the was a third party app that was now back in stock and the now back in stock is it reads the stock level for for an SKU which is there we go throwing in acronyms stock something items things that you buy um when it's at zero it um it it says it's out so you can't buy But then then the now back in stock thing goes put in your phone number and then it puts it into a into a MySQL database or posgress or something like that. And then eventually there's a basically a Laravel Q worker that that pulls it and then when it when it comes in it goes right send SMS. And so what I found is from talking to lots of people is is is that people go to one of the providers like us or or our competitors specifically for that one thing but they don't know about the other things and they don't look at the other things. So there's no like cross-selling is you think it'd be easy but it's kind of not. Um, and I think it's because of those like those that thinking of, well, the thing that I want my Shopify Laravel app to do specifically is send a text message. Well, okay. Well, why not an RCS message? And also, why not give the option to have a phone call if it's back in stock, if it's if you're doing medical supplies or something like that, something that's far far more urgent. And they don't know there's a voice API. Um and they certainly if they don't know about that they won't know about the new stuff like the network powered APIs which is difficult to explain because uh we're at the front of it like you know we we really are giving the cutting like that is the most cutting edge thing where you know I went to I went to uh I went to an offsite um like you know the whole team meeting in Stockholm and the Erikson people were showing us robotic Boston dynamic dogs that were just doing stuff based on the 4G G signal and I was like what? So we are doing cutting edge stuff and I think that trying to make developers aware of all of the different things that you can use is is a bit of a struggle and that's what I get on the booth. I I'm curious. So sorry going back to um I'm wondering if you could expand a little bit more on silent authentication that you were saying. Do you need to have a native app in order uh on the phone for that to work? No. So, although bearing in mind the silent in the works um with a shout out to Simon and Shane because of native PHP because I'm where I can try to build and promote that as much as possible because I genuinely believe that to be a gamecher within the entire industry outside PHP. But um I will turn the sample up I've got into a native PHP app. But there's one thing that it works on the premise of and I think that native PHP will change that for Laravel developers. When the user hits the button Mhm. that says authenticate me and it hits the back end of Laravel whe you know whether that's in this case I'm thinking of the traditional approach where it's something that's it's the browser on the phone and it's actually a Laravel back end on on your cloud or you know wherever it is on AWS or Laravel cloud it has to be done via cellular now that that is one of the sort of probably the biggest friction point if you do it via Wi-Fi it's not on the network won't do it because it's like where's that where's that come from? The whole point of silence authentication is it works by intercepting the we you send off the request that came in to Vonnage and Vonnage goes we know exactly what carrier has sent that and from where and from which and from which tower and therefore the triangulation what what the carrier is who the former carrier all that information analyzes that in order to do to to make it the security tool that it is. Jim, geographically, does that work kind of worldwide or are there restrictions to where that works? Not not at the moment. No, it works in it works in the in the UK, Germany, Spain. Um, and I think that's I think that's it at the moment. Um, but there's a page will I be able to will I be able to get it up in time? there's basically a page of supported territories, but what's happening is is that we're working with individual carriers to just sign them up and sign them up. So, so gradually it will just start expanding and and expanding. Um, that's that's that's how it works at the moment. Um, that's really the that comes down to them having the the power of the power of Ericson behind us. Um, silent authentication supported territories. Um and also one of the things during my talk that was really important was the fallback which is you can implement it if you're based in say you know in in in Germany in Spain where where now it's sort of leading but if it's another territory then it will just fall back to the the previous the um you know the any other method even email if you wanted to um territories vonnage. There we go. Let's see if I can find it. Um, if I can put it into the private chat, then maybe you can chuck it up. Um, am I going to do it in time without dead without without dead air? Probably not. No, no, no. It's going to take we can drop a link in the description a little bit more. So, yeah. So the reason why I bring native into this is because native PHP for the work they've done has access to the either Cotlin or Swift native PHP uh sorry native APIs the C a the APIs through through C. It's really complicated how it works. The good thing is I don't have to worry about that because they've done it for me. It gives access to the device APIs and but if we have access to the device APIs then we have access to whether cellular is switched on and off or whether whether Wi-Fi is switched on and off. So for that request theoretically you could switch off Wi-Fi and then just say make sure you force it through the cellular connection. That means yes we're restricted by territories in terms of consumers. It means that the West is really the the target market. It means that if you're an emerging market where not where 5G and 4G isn't there, then that's that's not going to be your sort of target customers. But then your app caters for everybody because it starts off with that and then it ends with and it ends with SMS if you want it. An SMS now is going to be across all markets. It doesn't it it doesn't matter whether you're in the United States, whether you're in Japan or whether you're in Nigeria doesn't matter. So you've got kind of all bases covered. So, like everything with these APIs, there's there's there's friction. There's there's there's pros and there's cons. There's trade-offs. Yeah. Yeah. Um, if I could circle back to the the the previous we were talking about um like people finding finding their way to the platform for a specific reason. I think SMS a lot of times is that I I've had a similar use case where I've named the competitor but uh done a similar thing where I've signed up because I needed my application to send SMS. But largely they've been you know very simple you know simple text messages right and I think that's what SMS is is you know best for uh but when you mentioned like people aren't revaging maybe in those cases RCS like this rich communication services so as it's just sort of a a dumbed down explanation like RCS to me is sort of SMS but you can have like media in it is that kind of a good way of looking at it yeah the the best way to explain it I think um I'll sort of I'll I'll talk to to I'll I'll talk to the audience with sort of jewel with with jewel possibly west and emerging markets. If it's the west, we're going to talk about WhatsApp. If it's emerging markets, either something like signal or viber all the things that you can do in things like signal and viber and or insert you know telegram etc is that it's a rich media communications platform. That's the point of it. So uh you can have interactive prompts, you can send messages, you can send you can send images, you can send video um so and things things like the lo location like location that then uses the location API on a device all of those kind of things. RCS is a protocol built on top of and and really it's a protocol but on top of on top of and supported by RCS that uses that uses G GSM. So, as far as you're concerned as the end user, it's just your messages app on your phone, right? So, an RCS message coming in looks exactly the same as a text message, except with RCS, it's got stuff that you can't do in a text message, but it will look the same. It'll just look like WhatsApp. So, that's kind of that's the the the difference with it. And there's it's one of those it's I don't really I haven't delved too much into the reason why. I know that the support from Google and and Apple really just suddenly that they they were then invested and they are the the two smartphone platforms and therefore once once they're involved they then push they're then pushing it out. Makes a lot. Yeah. So the ability um the ability to create RCS applications where um the sort of classic use cases if it was like a um if it was like an interactive help desk that you get on so many so many applications where you go on their website and then you have the thing um you have the little the little the little box like hello how can I help you today? I will sort of put you through to a human maybe if you're feeling lucky. those kind of apps if you log if you like in Laravel you could just build an entire system with multiple login if you wanted to resell it multi-tenency if you wanted to multiple login for agents that login and they get they've got like a list of of assigned things that are incoming and as far as they're concerned they have a desktop app that's on the browser and they're talking to them but then they can send videos and they can send images so if you've got if you've got like some sort of IT support type thing. They can drop in an image and it will go so they get it on their device and your your desktop app just works as if it was WhatsApp web or or the Telegram app or something like that. It's pretty powerful what you can do with RCS and what Vonnage offers. It's powerful stuff. So yeah, I mean I think there's a world of possibility and then you connect that to AI in terms of generating those responses. But but even just yeah dialing it back I think of like the so a simple example would be like when I talked about like I've I've signed up for a platform like this before to send a notification message and it might just be plain text. Uh your order is ready for pickup but with an RCS message I I have a whole world of possibilities in terms of like the visuals I put in that in that message and then also making the message like you said interactive right. So my understanding it like let's say I wanted to send out a message be like are were you happy with your service and if it was an SMS message I would have say like please respond Y or N. Exactly. With RCS though I could have a nice graphic with my logo maybe like clickable links where I could I could respond yes or no and kind of make it really a much nicer user experience. Right. I mean what when I was in when I when I was on stage at uh Laracon India I spoke to I spoke to someone at the booth um that was absolutely insane by the way um if you want an experience go to Laracon India it's absolutely we've heard we had we had Vish on in January and yeah it's it's just next level madness like there there's there's there's no rules everything goes um and the and the year that I went was the year that they um they they put it at the same time that the Holly Festival of Color was on. So, we did the Holly Festival as well and it was I I think it was probably one of one of the most memorable memorable weekends of my life, I think. Um it was kind of insane. Not the 27hour journey back that wasn't but um to go back to the to to go back to Yeah. So someone was someone was saying they they worked at a major shipping company and they actually used Laravel valve and they were like well so what can you do what can you do about this? So I talked about their use case and what they wanted was really I I basically discussed the solution which is when somebody unloads something via crane number one 2 3 4 at port insert whichever port it is. um can I have an app that I press that the user is logged in who's the worker who presses a button and says I've done it and when they say I've done it that's all they need to do because then it geoloccates it and then it forwards it via RCS with the location retrieval then sends a location card to to the main server of whoever's monitoring it on their desktops and so you've got an unload of right load load XY Z unloaded by crane one and it's all done by geoloccation Um it kind of blows my mind that I work in a company where we can sort of do that. Um but that's what you can do now. Um and like I said the whole the whole point of this talk is that um if communications in a Laravel app is mentioned to me at the booth usually it's oh that's cool you can send MS SMS and I'm like oh no you can do more than that. Cool. Yeah. No, that's and that's I I I hear and AI stuff falls in the same boat for me. I hear all these things or I see someone give a talk and they de demonstrate something or some concept and I'm like that sounds cool, but it's it's when I hear the practical use cases of people actually putting them together that I start to realize the possibilities where I get really excited about it. Yeah, I I would say at the moment um contentwise about what I'm writing about and what I'm I'm not ready to write a Laravel AI talk with with Vonnage just yet because we're it's such a it's such an evolving space that's very very difficult to keep writing a new one every month. Well, well, exactly. there's a there's a security breach every month or there's a new evolution or there's a someone's buying something and um uh it's it's it's all a bit kind of crazy to keep up with. But as it maybe as the AI space hopefully sort of I don't know um steadies a little bit where it's a bit more stable then it's already apparent to all of us at Vonnage. We all know that that that's this is something that is not like say the sort of the the crypto boom in the sort of mid 2010s. This isn't that this this is this has already made its impact and it's changing development as we know it where communications APIs come in. I mean we know that we're going to play a big part in that. We we just are because because of voice because of take it right. I'm going to take an incoming RCS and then I'm going to feed it through into an agent and the agent's going to or may maybe it maybe at some stage you know it'll be Laravel itself will just be orchestrated by claw uh by open claw and open claw will be taking you know RCS messages that come in and doing actions or if it comes to development maybe doing deploys or maybe do maybe opening PRs who knows the possibilities are kind of endless. So I mean speaking of that I guess speaking of that and also figuring like maybe not a lot of people have heard of CPASS. How have you found like interacting with AI to come up with CPASS related stuff? Like when you ask AI is that something that comes by easy for you or are you finding like there's still not enough there to really feel guided by AI? I guess I I uh every everyone is everyone is absolutely on our team everyone is individual to their to their their approach. We have like a we have a companywide goal. We are going to be an AI first company and we're we're already on that trajectory. That's that's fine. Um and how we use it, we all prove how we use it. Um so everyone uses it for different kind of means and ends. I think one of the most important things that's a kind of mantra across the team especially when writing is it's there as a tool but it can't write it for you. and within the industry um and this is maybe sort of a within the within within the tech industry in general um to be even spicier at this if you look at my LinkedIn you'll see what I'm referring to be within the Laravel industry specifically there are a lot of developers in emerging markets that really really want to be influencers and being an actual an actual influencer is a lot of hard work takes years and is really difficult and a lot of the time you get absolutely no praise for it whatsoever. So going to GPT and saying make me a Laravel post about Laravel 13 then give me an AI generated image and splat it onto LinkedIn it does not make you an influencer. So if you take to the audience members, if you take anything from me today, put work into your craft, use AI as your tool, don't think it's going to do your job for you because it because it won't. So that's how the way I use it is right everything is from my brain. Every the ideas, the way I do weird humor that some people love, some people hate. I don't know. engagement is the kind of key point and also you know the actual the actual code and what these things do itself. Um it's important that if I don't know what I'm talking about then everyone will switch off. Um I'd like to I'd like I'd like to pretend to be doing all this but I have to be good at something. So So um you can you can tell tell about where my sort of various passions lie about things because you basically just clicked my on switch. Although is that hard? Really not that hard. It was clicked on already. Yeah, it comes it comes out of my brain just like sort of you know like Harry Potter when he taken the dreams out or whatever. Mr. Potter um take you take the take it out and then feed it I feed it into various models and go give me outlines of what you think about this and then I determine what makes sense as a human and what is very very obviously plastic in AI and I take that and roll with really planning is how AI comes in. So that's the main way that I use it. Um for the really boring mundane stuff that's not just so that I I use it for ideas and how to really sketch out stuff. That's all I use it for. I tried to do debugging with it once and I did it with pest test and my goodness me it did not know what it was doing. Um give it a year, it'll probably be amazing. Um, but really the there's there's a really interesting post by on the Vonnage blog. I'm going to put it so that you can put it up because I really should be doing that. Um, where uh a colleague of mine on my team, Benjamin, wrote an article about knowing no Laravel and used Laravel boost and use the Vonnage MCP server. We do have an MCP server just to go. I'll tell you what, I'm not a PHP developer. I'm certainly not a Laravel developer. What can I do? And I mean, he does it. He's got a fully functioning app that does com stuff. Um, which is pretty which is pretty cool. So, I think there's a sort of with AI there's a bit of a low know your know your kind of limits. Um, with great power comes great responsibility. A lesson we learned. Uh, that and the more you know, the more you can do too, right? Unfortunately, unfortunately, the unfortunately the the the the pro the problem is with people that put out the most stuff about AI um either have got skin in the game and they're trying to manipulate stuff or they're trying to give an opinion because because they're heavily invested in a company or um they don't know what they're talking about. Just want just want them to do it for them. Right. Uh here we go. That's one that's that's one for the Here you go. What happens if you give So actually Benjamin predominantly is a Rails developer. What happens if um you you you just you just give Vonnage MCP and the Larab boost MCP and then try and make an app out of it. Um I've put it into the private channel if like if you want to Yeah. Yeah, I got that. We'll be sure. Cool. one. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. No, I definitely coming into this chat that was uh one thing on my mind, which is where do you see where do you see CPASS evolving uh within in in the world of AI, so to speak. And I think what you said, you know, makes a lot of sense is that it's going to be a uh AI is going to be driving a lot of the services that you kind of outlined and stuff like that in the future as people build out more and more things um with AI. Yeah, we have we have redefining we have redefining um the things that are being redefined at the moment are um you know de used to the field that I'm in used to be called developer relations i.e. we have an API and our customers are developers and therefore the developer experience must be good then we've sort of renamed to developer experience so we've gone from kind of customer experience to developer experience as DX and now what's essentially evolved and really it was it was Fabian Patensier at API platform conference the the founder of Symphfony really started talking about AX and it's true you can't avoid it agent experience now we have to We have to consider agent experience and from that that basically is the AI experience of how prepared are we for our APIs to be consumed by AI and if you're not ahead with that you know you you're going to fall behind very very quickly as we've seen from the from the kind of the the the curve of of AI's evolution at the moment. Yeah, absolutely. Well, any other questions for you Marggo and yourself? Um, I wanted to know about so with support for Laravel 13, I guess more just for for the audience to really hear it from you, Jim. What's the killer feature in the new version that developers should be using for communications? The the killer feature. The killer feature. What do you mean from us? I guess so. Or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From you. Well, because because I mean like there's um I think that um uh out of the I mean the actual the actual feature I enjoyed the the most looking at Laravel 13 really is is the the uh getting my hands it's really boring getting my hands dirty because every developer that specializes in front and I've spoken to really rate spelt. So having the spelt kit available as boilerplate was like great I can play around with this without having to like like front-end tool chains right it what's it all about I I don't know I don't know what's going on all the time is doing this and compiling these assets into the wrong directory and I don't know what I'm doing and this is why things like things like these bo the kind of stuff that comes out the starter kits and vits being sort of baked into npm's um kind of uh the npm dev start like service start and build process. Um stealth is something that I really really want to get my hands dirty with because I want to see what it's all about. Um you know in the in the interests of being um with my sort of BBC British board broadcasting hat on where you have to be um you you you can't be biased about everything. Um, I'm really really interested in spelt and I really like Vue and in the interests of bias and making sure that we're equal, I really hate React. I hate it. It's rubbish. Why do you use it? What's what is it? It's rubbish. Um, so I'm really excited about that. But in terms of the pairing with with um in terms of the pairing with with Vonnage, I'd say I'd say the next gen the next gen stuff with um with with network APIs being paired with Laravel. I think there's there that's the thing I'm excited about most. So, like I said, the the in the talk, the blog post I've got coming out soon, it's kind of under review at the moment, so top secret. Don't tell anybody. Don't tell anybody. Is trying to sign up and when you try and sign up, it goes through cellular and it triangulates where you are for security purposes. Now, to do that in Laravel paired with with Vonnage, that's what I find exciting. Um, so, um, you'll hear more about that and it will get even more fun when I start pairing it with native PHP because that stuff is just that stuff native PHP is basically Willy Wonkerland. I don't know how they've done it, but they've done it. I agree. I've been uh been playing around with native PHP. We've had both uh both Simon and Shane on uh on to talk about it. It's it's a very cool project. Yeah, definitely. All right. Well, Jim, I'd like to thank you once again uh for joining us today. Um, you you you uh pointed us to a few blog posts and stuff. We'll put those links in the uh in the description afterwards. Uh we can point people to the Vonnage docs to get started. Anywhere else that we might want to point people to kind of get, you know, as a as a resource to get up and running with some of the stuff and start experimenting with what's possible. I think that like let's if I just if I bring up the if I bring up the Vonnage blog because that's a really good place to get started because in the Vonnage blog, um you get uh some of the articles, the ones that I linked on there, the code's already there. I mean, sure, it's in Laravel 12 in most cases. Um, so you know, yeah, sure, I need to run shift. Um, but I'm I'm lazy slash overworked. Who knows? Um, so those those those blog posts show you the show all you have to do is sign up and get your security credentials and then you can kind of analyze the code to see what it's doing. So, um, that's probably I would say one of the best starting points. Um, let me the one I think I think the one with live wire. I'm going to do the live wire one because that was really that really sort of um that kind of blew my head off that there was almost the only thing I did in the front end was CSS code. That was it. So, I'm going to put that there. That's now in the private chat so that you can chuck it out either into the room now um uh or add it on to, you know, YouTube comments and things like that. Got it. Awesome. Yeah, we'll definitely do that. All right. Uh I think that's all I have. Once again, Jim, thanks for joining us today and and sharing all of this in a very engaging presentation. Oh, that was that was that was tame. That was very tame. Wow. I'd like to see what what not tame. Oh, no. I'm capable of much much worse. All right. Well, if you want to look at if you want to look up my name on YouTube, you can check it out when I talk to the ghost of John Wayne. Special shout out to to Alex the Bonnage Elephant. Here he is. I'm afraid we're out of them. We've given them all away now. Out at Vonnage at um Laravel London and Laravel Manchester in the UK. Uh a load of them were given out at one of the meetup, one of the Laravel meetups in the US. Can't remember which. He's called Alex. He's named after my son because he stole the prototype and he wouldn't give it back. Yeah, we were talking before. You have quite a a collection of PHP elephants there, including some massive ones I've never seen before. Uh, I've never seen the Yeah, look at that Frank. That's Wow. Frank one. Shout out to Kevin. And normally he wears his he wears his native cap as well. Oh, I've got a Silious one for the e-commerce heads out there. There you Oversized. It's um on that. It's addictive. And much to my wife's charger, she's like, "Keep those in your office. do not bring these into the house. It doesn't surprise me. Well, thanks for sharing all of this today, Jim. We really appreciate you joining us, sharing your knowledge, and uh and any uh any parting thoughts for you today before we sign off. Uh invest in salmon. I don't know. No. All right. Well, thanks again, Jim. We appreciate your time, and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you very much, both. All right. Well, yeah. Thanks again, Jim, for a very engaging presentation. And uh Margot, before we sign off today, we've just got uh some few community things to take care of. So, what do we have here? Cool. Thanks, Dan. So, yes, big thank you to Jim. Um as for our next meet up, we you can join us on May 26th. So, we're going to have possibly Joe Tannon to talk about some Laravel Cloud. So, we got some exciting stuff coming up. Um and we could also sign up for our giveaway. So again, scan that QR code, you'll be entered into our draw and the winner will be announced May 5th and you can win any one year subscriptions to um Jeff's ide. So you get to pick. Pretty awesome. Um and then also to stay connected and involved, you can follow us on Ax at Laravel WW meetup and then you could also follow us on Blue Sky as well at Laravel WW meetup. And for all your Laravel worldwide meetup updates, make sure to follow us on our official website at meetup.lar.com. And you could also subscribe to our email list as well to not miss a single notification. So please sign up for that if you'd like. Um and then you could also let us know uh through blue sky or on X. Uh if you want to chat if you want to do a talk, you could also do that on meetup. As well we'd love to hear any of your ideas and what you want to what you want to stay informed about in the Laravel community. And then also thank you for watching us on YouTube. And uh if you want to find some more great Laravel content, um you can subscribe to the Laravel YouTube. Lots of great videos and content that comes out. And again, don't miss the next video that's going to be coming out. Uh it's a live event at 2 o'clock to check out some more Lar Cloud Laravel Cloud stuff. All right. Well, anything else for you, Margot? No. Thank you so much everybody for tuning in. Always a pleasure. And uh we'll see you the next time. Yeah. Thanks everybody. Have a great day. We'll see you in the next one. See you.