Ditch Your Scraper with Tabstack

Yeah. Do you usually there's like music for the countdown, isn't there? You have like an intro when you It's all fancy and stuff, but I think I can do that. Hold on. Let's try it. Ready? Oh, let's see. If it works. Very podcast vibe. It really is, isn't it? It is. Oh, they got Loi. I like listening to Loi sometimes. It's really helpful for like just background noise. Yeah. Just background lowfi, like having a chat in a cafe and the music's not too loud. Yeah. I feel like I don't know about you, but I feel like the energy that you and I currently have had trying to figure out a good dynamic here. the energy you and I have had like we should roll in with like we are the champions or we absolutely killing it. Yeah. Yeah, we are. All right. Well, I turned the music off because it's silly, but maybe we could find some fun music next time. Let's talk about TSAC and scrapers and data and the cool stuff you're doing and we're doing. Yeah, we're doing some loads of cool stuff, aren't we? like um I mean I've I've tried extracting data from websites before and it's just a reax mess you know you you pull things maybe use playright and you've got to you know dom select things and try and figure out what you're getting and it is a nightmare. It's interesting that you say that use as well. Yeah, it well it I mean yes, but it's interesting that you say that too because like on Product Hunt, so we launched on Product Hunt today for anyone who um is coming in or is listening or listens to this later. We are on Product Hunt, so you should go check it out. Um but a lot of folks on on Product Hunt were actually talking about that, right, of like oh like this is a whole different ballgame, right? We're not we're not actually scraping data for like where is it in the DOM or the CSS or whatever. It's like, no, it's a schema and we're looking for a specific label. And as long as they continue that data source in that same labeling fashion, right? Hypothetically, a lot less maintenance than having to deal with a scraper, traditional scraper setup. Yeah. It's like a scraper with some intelligence because, you know, anyone can throw together a scraper and make it feel smart, but then it breaks under circumstances. Exactly. Exactly. It It's nice to nice to have something that's actually usable. Yeah, I agree. Well, yes. Welcome. It's interesting because when um Okay, so when I started interviewing at Tabstack, uh my manager actually had reached out to me. I had gotten a referral internally, which is so lovely, such a nice way to go. Um anyways, we were talking and I was like in the middle of building built for devs at that time. And so, you know, I was like, "Oh, what is this?" And so I started looking and I was like, "Oh, because I was running a developer experience audit tool." Essentially, it was going out and it was like, "How likely is it that developers are going to adopt your product?" And so it was like a website crawl, pricing crawl, docs, that kind of thing. And I was like, "Oh, you know what? Like I should put this in there." Because it was all like manual scraper piecing. I was using like SER and like all these different things to sort of piece different pieces together. I put it I put it in there. Not only was it like stupid simple to actually integrate because it's literally just an SDK that's like quick, um, everything's managed, right? It's all in Right. Exactly. So then I I implemented it and not only was it like stupid simple to integrate, but the best part about it was is that because of how efficient it was with like extracting the markdown version for me because I wanted the actual raw version of documentation pages, it actually decreased like my costs massively like massively because now I was maxing my search at 80,000 characters I think. Well, I think anyways, I was able to massively increase that and still get greater context if that makes sense. So, it was like a cheaper run, a more efficient run, and I got way better results because it was more thorough going through. So, anyways, yeah. Um, extremely valuable in my case, too. Exactly. And, you know, when even just as a a tool for everyday developers, like the free tier is really generous. So yeah, just being able to play with it and come up with ideas has been really fun. Tell me about it. What how what would I use this for? Oh, how about if I wanted to do this, how could I do this with it? or you know just figuring out those little nuances and just trying it with a you know very generous free tier and just being able to just have fun with an API and not even a complex API either like I played with APIs in the past and they can be really horrible to work with and integrate with and yeah this wasn't it it was just like pulling an SDK Okay, I'll Yeah, I literally did something while I was waiting for my Chinese to come and I threw together a little job aggregator because I was like, I wonder if I could do this how well it would perform and it just works. So, it's always Yeah, that's amazing. Don't use it often, right? Well, that was actually one of the use cases that I wanted to chase down. So, I'm actually glad that that's the one that you started playing with because I would I feel like there's so much and from like so I'm trying to decide how to like formulate my thoughts here from like the job standpoint. What I think is super cool about that and what I've really wanted to build with TabStack but haven't had the time is thinking about like a reverse job board. So, like instead of it being about the job, it's about like the open candidates and then being able to like go in there and potentially saying, "Hey, okay, this is me. This is my LinkedIn. This is my blah blah blah." And then like flipping the script, right? And it's like who who's out there to hire? Because that was like one thing that I thought was so silly when I was looking for work like over the, you know, last year and early part of the year, right? It was just like and now on the other side of it, I can't keep track of who's looking for work. Like I really can't. And I am trying so hard to be like, "Yes, let me line you up. Let me connect to you. Let me do what I can, but like I forget." And so I think anyways, I think that'd be a cool use case. And so I love that you built the job board. I'm like, "How do we like build the other side?" Now you just need to add the other side. Exactly. Right. And this is where I mean I'm involved with uh JSON ré schema. So this is where like that standard also comes into it which is again another JSON schema that you can use. You can follow and you could build a recruitment tool to start building up these resumes quite easily and then you just have to do a level of matching. Oh man, that would be really cool because I mean, yeah, I've spoken to developers who have, you know, they've applied for 30, 40, 50 jobs and sometimes they don't always hear back and it's okay, if you could spin that on its head using something like this to scrape that data and just go, right, I got your profile. I'm going to scrape some things in the background and we're just going to serve them up to you. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. Well, what do you think? What should we dive in? Do you want to show off your job aggregator? Like I mean, I can't show it off much. I I'll show it off. It It's super simple. Um I'm not going to lie. I've I've spent about an hour waiting for my Chinese food to arrive. So, let's have a look. Hey, but but that's kind of the essence of like Tabstack, right? is that you literally can do something like that and like get something get results like so quickly if you use the MCP literally like 30 seconds to get a key and start using it. Yeah, exactly. If you if you could do something like this um with MCP and let's say you had Claude, you connected to the MCP and you uploaded your CV and then you said, "Okay, get jobs from this list of companies and then tell me which one I'm going to match to." That'd be funny. That would save you so much time. Yeah. Well, I mean, and on top of it, too, I think like, you know, this is a whole another idea, right? But it's like if you something like that existed, like it would just be so nice because at the end of the day, like I feel like when you put out traditional job descriptions and everything else, it's just like it's the same game like all the time. And then I'm on the flip side, right? Like of Yeah. like bringing you in like I know tons of technical writers and tons of other people. And so it's like, okay, thinking about my network, who's going to be the best person again, who's available, who has the time, etc. I don't know. It feels powerful. Definitely. But this is what I put together. A very quick sort of thing. Um, you can find the remote rolls, filter by company. Um, it's literally just a big old I didn't even pageionate or anything. I just grabbed it. Yeah, it it's got a a node script um over here. Where is it? Okay, so we got my config over here. This is where we just um yeah, resources where I'm going to get it from who, you know, company uh give it a URL, a site, the site's important for something fun. Um, and then literally all that the script does is it just makes sure that I've got my tab stack API key, start a client, and then we're just going to start extracting, you know, going through all the sources and start extracting. Then we just save that to SQLite database. It's pretty crazy when you think about it though that you built that while you were waiting for your Chinese food though. I think that's the power. Yeah, that that was the power of it. You know, I use Nux because I know how easy it is. I use Shad CN so that I didn't have to style anything because I know I suck at that. Um, and yeah, it's it's super simple. Like if I it it takes seconds to run as well. Um, cuz I built a little caching part on it. So it's kind of checking the job ro company name and stuff in a in a hash. So it's not going to refetch the same jobs. So let's run that. That's it. Look at you. Yeah. So let's go and uh add one more company because we both like Laravel. So we should probably add Laravel, right? Let's definitely add Laravel. Big fans. and oh okay we'll stick with that good old autocomplete you're like going to fetch those in the background and insert them into the database and there we go. So now if we come back, let's do a refresh. We've also got Laravel now. And this bit here, that's actually um using a Google URL to fetch the favicon. Um which I thought was really fun because I didn't know it existed and then I kind of stumbled on it. Wait, what is what is here? Wait, I'll see if I can find the URL again. Um, I'll tell you what. Here we go. So, google.com s2 favacon's domain is the host name and give it a size. That's that provides you with a favicon. Like, I never knew that existed, but wow, that was fun to use. So I didn't have to think about, you know, passing in a URL for an image or anything. I just grab it and go. It's amazing. And obviously you just link straight off to it. Um, last updated six companies filter to remote. Go look at first cell. There we go. I mean, it is buggy because I spent like less than an hour on it, but it's fun. But that's the point though. I I could I could build something like this and stick it up on Netlefi, Cloudflare, anywhere, and I just have a scheduled job to run and fetch with jobs and then I've got a job board. That's crazy. And you made it while you were waiting for your Chinese food. That that is the bit I'm most impressed about, I think, is the fact that I I built it while waiting for Chinese because anyone who's seen me live stream before knows I like Chinese food. And I think I've lost count of times I've mentioned eating Chinese food while on a live stream, but this time I did the code first. So that is what I built. Oh no, I put that on cuz Tom Tom's like, I can't see the code cuz you stopped and then you started, I think. And then he's like, I could just see Tessa in there and all big. I'm like, oops. It's funny because if anyone's been watching behind the scenes, if you're like, what is she doing? Because I'm like sort of doing something. I'm trying to figure out how to even us. I haven't been on reream since they re-updupdated. So, you know, this is super cash and fun. Yeah. Oh, I'm trying to figure out how to make this look better. There we go. Now Steve's bigger. That's better. Oh, but now you're just illuminating my boldness with this light. It's like the moon's come out. So, here's my theory on baldness. My husband is also bald and he is like, it just kills him. He's always like, "Oh, it must be nice to have hair." And he like says that to my teenage sons who have like massive big hair. And I'm just like, you know, the thing about bald guys is that they think, which they don't need to, but they think that they are like lesser than because they don't have hair. But I'm like, you guys think that and then in turn end up becoming better people because you're trying to make up for your baldness. And this is I swear this is the case for every bold person I know. They're always the most amazing people. So I personally am a big fan. Bold people unite. I mean I found I I hit I hit 30 and my hair just went from there. It came out my chin instead. I just kind of what what there just comes out there instead. Now it relocated. It did. It did. Um I'm blaming kids for for that if I'm honest. Yeah. Definitely definitely children. That's a good thing to blame. Okay. So, since you and I started working together, what has it been? Two weeks now. A week. It has to be two weeks. Yeah. This is like Yeah, just about two weeks. Yeah. It's Gosh, it's go. Okay. So, like let's talk about all the things that you've shipped and that we've done because like you've done a lot of really cool stuff. Yeah. I started with the docs, didn't I? like um just restructuring the docs, started to rewrite some of the docs, making them a little bit more kind of less developer written because that's why a lot of doctors are very developer written, right? It it's as a developer when you're writing documentation, you're pretty much assuming everyone has the same base level knowledge as you. So you just write as if you're having a conversation with a fellow developer on the same level as you who knows exactly what you mean. And those docs suck when that happens. Um these were relatively well written. I've not had to rewrite too much. But you know docs should be telling a story and engaging with that person, right? That person might not know the product, might know the product really well. So they're either joining in at the beginning of a story or they're picking up from chapter three because they know the first part. So they need to be able to go on that journey and understand concepts and nuances as you're going through it. So it's hard to tell a story about extracting JSON and markdown and stuff, but it's it's doable. Um, but then yeah, I bu docs uh did a couple of kind of design updates on some of the pages just to make them less kind of here's text, read it and see me later. It's kind of like trying to go through it a little bit more, you know, see next steps, that sort of thing. Then I built a CLI. That was a lot of fun. Um, I love building CLIs. Um I I never remember the commands that I need to run. Did you use it today? I did. It was great. How was it? It was lovely. It was like installation was smooth. It was quick. It was easy. I um Really quick. For context, I created like this little tabstack OS system, which Steve, you know about the system and we're just kind of talking out loud. Yes. So that I could just like live in like one dire. Yeah. Like it would just live in one directory and like do my work but stay in one place because I feel like I'm just in like a million different windows. Yeah. Anyways, and so I was running uh Caline commands in there because it's actually in there helping me answer product hunt questions because some of it was like, oh, how exactly do we do that? Like I have a general idea, right? And like the other day you asked some really great questions too and improved our docs from them and so now our docs are just so rich in like all the answers and stuff. Anyways, I use the CLI to like I think I had it like run something instead of using MCP so I could validate that it would work. Yeah, that's exactly what I did. It was great. It was lovely. I'm currently working on adding MCP to the CLI so that then your FTP server is running locally. Um kind of closing that loop a little bit more so it's just then just all self-contained which will be awesome. Oh that will be awesome actually. Oh man that's going to be great. We have a question. Oo can you explain tabstack? Yes. Do you want to go first? It's from your butcher it first and then I'll let you do the kind of official explanation. Perfect. So, Tabstack, the easiest way to think of tabstack is it is a way to get information from anywhere on the web. Um, either through scraping, extracting, um, generating by asking, you know, LLM style interaction of here's my prompt, here's a URL, here's a schema. If I want to do this with this URL, get me that information back. It's a way to kind of automate using the web with AI superpowers involved as well. So, it's going to pull things out, but it's not just going to go, you asked for this and here's a list of ads on that page. It's going to actually look at the context of what you're trying to get and give it back to you in a format that you asked for, which is which is the main thing. That's the main thing. Nailed it. Was that you nailed it? That was perfect. Two weeks to finally got Look at you. Fastest onboarding. It's like I've been listening to you, right? Maybe. Maybe. Or you've been living in our documentation. So, you're just like the product is now ingrained. Are you dreaming about TabStack yet? Yeah, I am. I'm I'm I'm kind of dreaming about the things that I can do with it and what bits I can add to the CLI to make it even cooler. Um, yeah. I I feel the same way. Taking a lot of time. Uhhuh. There's just so much you can do. So like I would say my version is super close to yours. Like you know obviously I'm like I'm leading go to market from a technical capacity obviously and so like I've got kind of marketing taglines all over my head. But at the end of the day like TabStark really is like the ability to interact with the web like through an API essentially to like really like just slim it down. But Steve pointed out a a couple really great um super key things and I think like today we launched uh structured extraction uh on product hunt. And so that's actually our extract and our generate endpoints. So extract right is exactly what you're imagining like going out grabbing that data extracting that um in JSON or markdown. And then um generate is the AI intelligence right? So let's say you go out and like Steve your job you know aggregator right like Steve goes out and he's pulling jobs and then maybe we want to do something with those jobs right like maybe the information is there but like a summary we want to write a summary right hey can you write a summary of the job for the little the preview link or something so generate allows you to use that intelligence and actually like generate something out of that and then the research endpoint um which is one we launched last week on product hunt so definitely check that out just in terms of context text and things. Uh, super great. So, the research endpoint is not a live corpus. It's not an indexed amount of data. It's the live internet and it's going out and it's grabbing citations. And so, what it's doing is it's actually truly going out and doing a research call for you. So, it is going to go out into the world. It's you're going to ask it a question and it's going to be like, let me go find the answer. It's going to site it's going to um cite all of the URLs that it actually brings together in its answer while also answering what you're asking. Um, I think it's super cool. Yeah, it was because like and honestly like I need to do this more, but like when we were doing that launch last week, I was using the research endpoint so much that I realized that I was like, gosh, I wish I could use it for every single LLM call for the most part because I'm like I want proof. Like Claude, what are you talking about? Where did you get this information from? Yeah, exactly. Like I've used LLMs in the past and it's like you're working with that and it starts it hallucinates. That's the biggest problem is it hallucinates and because it's not citing sources, it's just you could just be chatting to the local plumber down the road giving you the exact same information half the time because are you going to believe it? You got to verify a lot of the time with what you do with LLMs. But this is citing sources and it's giving you those links and saying, you know, go read that if you want to want proof basically, which is awesome. Had a lot of fun playing around with that from the CLI. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a fun one. Then the last endpoint is automate. And so automate is um the idea of doing tasks for you, right? So like I think for a long time we've all been trying to pre-fill in a form or have job applications filled out for us. Okay, that could be the next add-on to this fun little demo is to use automate to to fill out a job application. Yeah. Um, yeah, you should because Mozilla is a great company. I recommend that to anybody. Although, sorry recruiting team who is going to get a bunch of really cool bunch of people I've dealt with at Mozilla. It's really nice. Yeah, it's, you know, like when the opportunity arose and started talking to the team, I didn't even like take the two associations. I was just like, "Yes, I've always like loved Firefox, just been kind of a diehard for like open source and you know that whole gamut." And then getting into the company and like they truly it's like the proof is in the pudding. Like everything is exactly the manifesto they put onto the world. And so I'm like gosh, I just I love Mozilla more and more every single day. So it's lovely. Really great bunch of people that work there as well that I've dealt with. Really awesome. you know, some of the Yeah, the engineers that I've spoken to just have so much knowledge and I've thrown some really random questions at them over the last two weeks. Um, the only things they couldn't answer were things that you were putting together to put into the enterprise contract. So, that's fine. You're still figuring it out. But everything else is like, sweet. I know all about the caching layer now. Fantastic. I didn't need to know that, but you do now which is the configuration in case anyone's curious. Yeah. I just saw that um I don't know if this is a question or not but we'll pop it on here. Yeah. In my case I use playright to scrape gated endpoints lots of data hard for AI to auto define schema on the fly. Would tab stack be something I should explore or is it more for summaries? No, I think tab stack would work with that. I mean gated end points depending what you mean on that. Is that uh rate limited or is that access controlled at the minute? Yeah, it's a good question. That's a Yeah, definitely a good question. Like scraping's good until you got to give an API key, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean like hypothetically depending on the scenario, lots of data. I don't know what lots of data means. That's the problem. So I'm like is it lots of URLs? Is it lots of like what like is it one URL with a lot of data? If it's one URL with a lot of data, not a big deal as long as you can obviously like do it inside of your confined area like if you're working locally and you've got your gated access locally um lots of data if it's lots of pages. I will say that was Steve that was actually something that came up on product hunt today is that someone suggested that we do like a bulk option. So instead of one URL it's like x number of URLs and go run all of I know. I thought that was pretty interesting too. So I guess Kubern followup is probably like what do what do you mean by lots of data? Is it multiple pages and then gated? Can you work locally? Yeah, let's just sit here quietly and I mean one thing I guess yeah one one thing you could do I mean it might be a bit too much of a stretch or something like that is um yeah in a browser you've got manager could it remember API keys linked to your account well one password has CLI now so yeah exactly so could you do something with that. Mhm. And I mean with a with the um the CLI for example is the way that I built it was to be scriptable. So you could pipe things in quickly and easily. I don't know whether you could add headers header parameters to the to a request you sent up to um Tabstack, but that's an interesting thing to look at. Yeah. like h oh I don't know um can't say something like that on a live stream can I um message me what you were going to say just kid the Steve filter I make sure it's on um oh I have my editorial principles filter that's what's in my tabs OS so that it keeps me from saying things I shouldn't say Well, okay. So, I was send this slide. Yeah. Yeah, do it. Okay. So, Cuban isn't necessarily answering my question. I think so. Here's the thing with Tabstack that's really interesting is that it can very intelligently go out from a URL, extract all that data, bring it back, then it can use the generate endpoint, right, to actually be able to only thing I could think of. Um, I I probably can't really say that on an official stream, can I? Um, okay. Let's come back to that. But anyways, like so the I think the the pain point for this for Cuban Fest Federal, should that person decide to chase us down, I think at the end of the day, Cuban, absolutely just go try it, right? See what happens because it's a very generous free tier. You've got 10,000 credits, you could probably run gosh on extract, even if you had to use the max, I bet you could run what that's like, you know, pricing, Steve, you just did a new pricing doc. Is that 250 credits? Is that 150 on extract? I believe was 250. We have a really beautiful pricing page at the docs if anyone is looking for a great price. Extract 50 credits. Markdown is 10 credits. Oh my gosh. See, like 50 credits. If you wanted to add generate, generate goes into 100, but it doesn't sound like they need the generate side of things. So, I mean, 10,000 credits at 50, you got a lot of free calls. So, I would say just go check it out. Right. Go have to download anything. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So, we've got the MCP, we've got the CLI. But also the playground uh once you log in the console like it's basically giving you almost like aesque sort of interface to then interact with it. So, you don't have to download anything. You don't have to commit anything other than signing up and you get 10,000 credits to play with. And I've been using it for what two weeks now and I've used maybe you know for development and I've not run out of credits. I've been building a CLI testing a CLI CLI going through the docs testing calls. I've not run out of credits yet and they were free credits. So I've not even had to pay anything yet. So maybe it's too generous. No. Can never be too generous. No. No. Can you see my screen share? I think I got it to work. Yes. Awesome. Well, here I'll just show it. Right. So, like this is what um that looks like. So, if we wanted to try like an extract. I've just moved our position so you can see the screen better. Oh, perfect. Well, see, you know what you're doing. I just don't know what I'm doing. You're in charge from now on. But you got yourself. This is why I I badly loaded the dishwasher the first time the wife asked me to do it. Now she never asks. Hey, there's something to that. Like there is that's funny. Probably why I never ask her for a cup of coffee as well. That's true. Hey, what you should run? We can just kind of show it off. But I'm sitting here every single time I have a chance to be like, let me demo tab stack, my brain just like stops functioning in terms of like actually remembering, you know, great cases to to share. Let's see. I wonder if there is anything cool on the product hunt launch page that you could extract. Oh, let's go look. Let's go look. Getting a Product Hunt does kind of lock their site down. So, this one will actually be fun. All right. We're going to try it on. Well, here we got Markdown. I want Well, okay. I kind of have to do markdown unless we're going to give it a schema of data I want because I don't know what I'm going to get yet. But you could try the generate schema because it suggests schema as well, doesn't it? Which was really fun to play with, I have to admit. I was like, here's a URL schema. Oh, I hear you. Generate. I hope for the best. All right, we're going to try it on standard and see. Okay. What do we what place is tab stack structured extraction in for the launch today? Does that make sense? Let's do product. Well, it knows it knows who they are. Know these things. We got a response. Uh I guess extracting gated endpoints means you need to be logged in to scrape the data aka have a valid session. Um, I don't think that's currently possible because it's not designed around that yet, is it? But definitely something that I guess could be doable. I don't see why you couldn't do it. Well, I guess the working environment plays into this, right? Like, can you use can you run this locally in a browser that you're already authenticated in? Oh, but how would you actually do that? Yeah, cuz tab stack would need to go get it. This is what passing in like the command argument for uh or you know MCP argument or whatever to pass through you know an API key or something. Well, okay. So maybe I shouldn't say this, but I think Well, okay. So, your header idea was that you're on to something with that. And I don't know if we can do that or not, but like you are on to something with that cuz I've done that before where I've like brought my cookie my logged in cookie through. Yeah. Just just copy it from your uh your tab. There you go. Yeah. I'm not saying that you should do that. It was a personal experience for me running it locally. So, I was like, it's fine. But, um I mean that's one option. You know, this is actually a really really good question and I'm like, how now I want to solve it. There's a few ways you could solve it as well, which is nice. Well, let's talk about it. I'm going to run this. I definitely think um I don't know because it's designed for teams, right? It's designed for, you know, people building data extraction pipelines and all sorts without managing that infrastructure themselves. So if they could also manage API keys from a team level and then you know control read write permissions then tab stack could you know if you pass an argument of load credentials for example it can load it in your URL match and away it goes. M you know I wonder if the automate can log in for you. Oh yeah cuz you should be able to pass that like you could use one password CLI. You could I mean you could hypothetically set up environment. I mean you could do a whole bunch of different things to pass the actual parameters. But I wonder if you could run an automate call. No because I think it uses a different browser. I was thinking maybe if you run it run an automate call log in then run your call but I think it's it starts over. Yeah would be cool though. It would be cool. That's just opening up a whole load of other possibilities that you could do with it like extract my latest emails. Mhm. and then pipe that into a automate task to say go apply to all of these people that I am not interested in LinkedIn recruiting. Um that would save a lot of time. Well, I mean if you use it locally, you could do that because you're you could use MCP and connect all the things, but not the true answer. Well, Cuban Federal, I'm really curious if you try it. Like I'd really be curious what you end up getting for results. Yeah, definitely. I definitely think there's an option there to add it to the product. In some way because you know data extraction on publicly accessible data. Yes, it can do that. But there's going to be those edge cases where they want, you know, locked down content to start extracting. And yes, you could kind of find a workaround to kind of go through it, but if it could just handle that automatically, automagically. I know I'm sitting here and I'm like, man, how can we do that? It'd actually be kind of nice if like there was like a like a authorization process where you could like Olaf into a subset of different kinds of accounts, but I feel like how would you where would you start and stop with that? So many ideas. Yeah. I I brain is ticking. That's like the beauty of Tab Stock is like I've had so much fun like and even you and I have had so much fun over the last two weeks just like oh what should we build and then getting excited about building things and derailing some of the stuff we're supposed to get done and then coming back and yeah then realizing it's you know for me it's half nine at night and I still need to get stuff done and we've just had a massive conversation about something that's not a priority. Yeah, I know. Oh, the use when we talked about the use cases the other day. Oh, I couldn't let go of that for like a long Yeah, such a cool idea though. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so I did get I just I ran a normal extract on product hunt to come back to the what I was doing in the screen share and so obviously a public URL, right? So the um the data that we can get in here, it doesn't I don't actually like oh my schemas are right there. See like this is If I did generate, it was going to make me put in my schema and I was like, I don't know what my schema is yet. Oh, look, there's tab stack. Yay. Yay. Oh, yeah. We start right here in eight. Okay. So, I see how the data pulls in now. Oh, that's cool. So, they got they give you the rank, the place that you're in, the name, the URL of the launch. I think that's my tagline, and that's it. So, I can get those four pieces of data. I'm actually pretty impressed. It did a good job because Product Hunt really locks it down because they're trying to make sure that it's like a fair voting process, right? They don't just want a bunch of agents that are able to like go in there and just upote something. So, I'm impressed. Definitely. But yeah, this is the console and you first time you showed me this, I was like, "Wow, this is actually nice." I did a whole 20 minute video on going through it to break it down as a, you know, fresh set of eyes. then realized I hadn't turned my microphone on, so I had to redo it, but got there in the end. Um, yeah, that's like stuff I do. Yeah, because because I've got this mic up here. Um, and it uses XLR, so it's got to go through my mix thingy. I don't know audio terminology, but I've got to have the app open to use that on my computer. Otherwise, it's just not sending the signal. So, yeah. Wamp wamp. It was okay, though. Lesson learned. It's the first time it's happened to me. So, the second recording was just as good. It was great. Um, let's see. I'm trying to think of any other cool. I know. That's why I opened them because they're so beautiful. They're just so pretty. Uh, what else did we ship? We shipped some cool stuff. Uh, um, do you want to talk about lang chain? Oh, yes. Yes. Lang chain. That is Let's talk about lang chain. I'm actually going to stop sharing because it's not exciting in the docs, but I think it's exciting for like us to talk about and anyone listening. Yeah. So I mean at the minute it's not an official integration with with lang chain but we are currently planning that. Um I think I'm allowed to say that. Probably would have been better for you to say it because then I Yeah. Although there's no secrets. I mean I feel like anyone who knows me knows that I'm an absolute open book from every single topic. Like the only thing that's secretive is something I can't share, but absolutely like we can talk about it. I think it's like like we want to integrate with everything that we can and like at the end of the day all these there's so much opportunity with tabstack especially being the one thing I guess we didn't talk about when we were explaining the product was that it's managed and so like it is all managed so you're not you're not bringing your own LLM you're not bringing your own data extraction pipeline you're literally just integrating tab stack it's doing the call and giving you back the output and so it's like just so great. So in that regard, one of the go to market approaches is that we want to chase after a lot of different integrations. Like how do we bring tabs stock into the AI stack of building things so that it's just something you just grab and you plug in and you're ready to use it. So all right, that's my spiel. Now you can talk about the link chain side of things. So we are going to be building a Python and Typescript package to start with because they are the two main supported languages with lang chain. Um and the idea is that it's basically going to replace the kind of the web URL component that playright and and those kind of provide. So instead of going use this playright thing, it's just going to be drop replace tab stack, make sure your kind of credentials are set up and it will just do it and do it better is the idea there. So that is kind of you can yeah literally just plug and play would be the idea. Um, I've written a I think it's like a three-page strategy on how we're going to approach it, but that might be a little bit too much reading for a for a live stream. This Yeah, I don't have the documentarian voice to do a to do a reading and I'm not Morgan Freeman, so we'll skip that one. do. But yeah, the the idea is that the the only thing I'm kind of toying with at the minute is that I know um pip is kind of standard in the Python space, but UV is more popular. I don't know if there's compatibility with that because I haven't done masses in the Python world. So, I've got some more digging to do. The TypeScript one will be easy. They're just both going to be using the official SDKs anyway. So, in terms of code to write, it's relatively small. most of it's going to be testing, I think, to be honest. But, yeah, I mean, well, that's kind of the beauty of TabStack, right? Is that it's so simple to integrate. I mean, there's not a massive installation process. So, I think that's going to be great. An SDK and it's there. Yep. Exactly. or MCP or CLI or whatever. Don't even have to have an app. You can just use it like I'm using it in my terminal. Go do stuff for me. Tabstack. basically it's and the fact that I managed to get the CLI scriptable is so awesome because you know it it means it opens up a whole world of possibilities for like DevOpsy sort of things as well, right? See, that's like I think that's the thing that like I started at TabStack and I was like and obviously still very excited about what it can do and I'm just like sitting here I'm like I just want to build stuff but I'm like I have to do my job but I'm like I want to build like a million things with with TabStack because there's so much you can do. I can't someone's bought built a Tab Stack CLI with clawed code. Let me um I know that's why I'm like I'm trying to You can't copy it. Why can't you copy it? 08.dev. Let's make sure we can't copy it cuz if I if I click it, it'll hide it. It's so annoying. Why can't I see that? Dreaming problems. Oh, no. It's cuz I I'm on a different keyboard. Developer problems. So, I've got my um my Mac, which I'm using to live stream, and then I got my Linux machine over there, which I try do my work on at the minute. Oh, you're so fancy. Yeah, I bought one of those. Um I don't know if you can see it. It's a U camera angle. the uh framework desktops. They are so powerful. All the little stuff that you can like click into place. So, you're talking Yeah, the um the the little front plate, but the desktop itself, like I've been running local LLMs on it to test it through um Zed and O Lama and it's just as fast as me using a cloud solution and it's never once heated up. It is crazy. That's amazing. Okay, I'm still trying to get the URL so I can check this out. I tell you what, I will drop it you on Slack. Well, here I finally got it. I can I'll screen share it. I'm not logged into GitHub in here because I'm using Chrome and it's I'm normally on Firefox, but nice. funnily enough, this is so similar to the one that I have built. Oh, this is nice. Yeah, it's like so simple. That's the thing like tab stack is just like so easy to use. but so powerful. like four end points and currently four end points and it's just it covers so many of your kind of scraping and automation needs in four end points. Yep. Yep. Very cool. Stop sharing on there. And the cool thing is that it's actually it it will cache it for you as well. So, you know, you hit it once and you hit it again, you're going to get the same results back because of the way that it's doing things. It's going to cach it for you for I can't remember the line off the top of my head. I think that Doc's PR might still be in GitHub. But yeah, really awesome that you know, let's say it's a five minute task to go and extract something because the page is massive or the schema is complex, then cache that give it you back much quicker a second time. So if you're building out a pipeline, you can you kind of you can kind of pre-warm any cache as well if you do it that way. So you go to the console, just go do a few things, and then run your pipeline, and it's there. Yep. I was going to go show I was looking at the docs, but I think you're right. I think it's still in a PR because it's not on the caching doc yet. All the amazing docs that you've been writing. Yes. Although one of the one of the docs PR I was writing and as I had to stop myself because I kind of got into a part where I was like okay so they don't need to know the technical details of how the caching works. I'm going to rewrite that bit because I was explaining about you know all the different systems that you use internally for the tech side of things. I was like that might be a little bit too far for explaining caching for an API people might use. Well, these are not internal ducks. It's true. It's true. But I think sometimes like I think one of the things someone just asked me the other day for quotes that they're going to put in um a piece of content that they're writing and it was like developer marketing quotes. And I essentially the um the sentiment that I gave in this answer was like really about like being really verbose in your docs and in your comparison guides and actually just being brutally honest. like we don't do that but but Firecall does right or like browser base does or browser use does like I don't like there is a a tool for each job and I think like that's the thing about developer marketing where it lands right because when a developer goes to a site and they see just like all the truth right okay here's how they differ here's where they're better detailed documentation that gives you expansive information like that's how you win the trust of developers so I'm in favor of lengthy docs as long as like, you know, subjectively they have what they need and then it's all just extras. But lengthy with purpose is fine, I think. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Got to have some purpose to it. I agree. I think it's getting pretty late for you. So, it's not super late for me, but you're into your sleepy time, isn't it? Yeah. Nearly sleepy time. Uh, no. I've had such a weird day. Um, my wife went out for a tattoo today, so I had the girls, so my day is kind of all jumbled up, but I got Chinese food, so I'm happy. H, we like moved back out into the country and so like I have to make Chinese food if we want it, which for a white girl, I make really, really, really good Chinese food. So there is that, but it's so much work. So now that you say that, I'm like, "Oh man, now I want Chinese food." Cuz I haven't had it in school. That is really hard for you where you are because you know your nearest neighbor must be what 2 miles away. Yeah. Like like I would say sitting at my desk I can't see anything but barren pasture. There is a neighbor like just to the left of my window that I can see their house but like you have to take the road to get there cuz everything is all pasture fenced and whatever. But yeah, no, it's it's pretty far. Chinese food is not a thing that I find in my little podunk town. Yeah, I I definitely don't think they'll be do delivery very well very easily. Yeah, I'm like 45 minutes from Waco, so it's like it's that like, you know, inner city 45 minutes is like, yeah, no, you're not getting delivery. 30 you can usually get delivery. we're outside of that. Oh, that's fun. Someone just followed me. Yay. Ah, lautsu. That is my good friend who lives in La France. Ooh. Who's getting married soon. Congratulations. Thank you for following me. Big fan of Laravel as well. So, we're already in good company. Yes. He is one of the only French Laravel channels. So, interesting. Check that out. Doing good work. Doing fantastic work. Steve and I are trying to do unfortunately. Sorry. You go. Yeah, we're trying, aren't we? I got so many ideas. Yeah. Sorry. Unfortunately, like I think as English speakers, we can really kind of oblivious to the rest of the world who don't actually speak English. Yeah, we we we can be. We can be. I am definitely that like typical American that goes to Europe and like expects I don't expect people to speak English because at the end of the day I have zero I have little expectations and want to always just be respectful but I do like tend to like oh I don't know other languages so I'm the jerk that comes in and is like I can only speak English sorry yeah I can speak phrases of different languages but I could not have a conversation. Yeah, I did two years of Spanish. I remember color. They struggle me. I I find it much easier learning a new programming language than a spoken language. But maybe that's just, you know, my tech brain. Like I can understand syntax and rules and stuff. So that's because it makes sense. People don't make sense. Yeah. I thoroughly take my hat off to anyone who can speak more than one language because I struggle with English half the time. Yep. I agree with that. It just takes such a discipline to like master it and then to be able to do it fluently, right? So like Europeans who can speak multiple languages, I'm like, "Oh, all hail you cuz like good job because like I can't do that." Can I demo it live in the stream? Can we bring him into the stream? I I don't know. Can we I don't know. I have I've not I used to use Streamyard. Um but I'm switching to Reream at some point. I just haven't been on YouTube in about six months. Guess what? I found the place where you can change the views. No, we found it. I swear I'm smart sometimes, but then other times I'm just like, "Yeah, okay." Common sense. Hey, what? Yeah, I suppose. You know, you can't be smart at everything, right? Yeah, exactly. That's that's what you have a team for. Oh, true that. True that. Um I think we should do like uh Steve, let's just plan like a little demo. I don't know. Are who is are are you on my network? This I don't want to I don't want to butcher his first name. I'm so bad at that. Yeah, I'm really bad at that. Okay. So, Ash, I apologize if that's not how you say it, but I would love for you to join us on a stream. So, we're going to track you down so that we could do that because I can't just invite random guests. I have to get like your email and I get you connected and get you the link, I think. Um, but we do need to actually wrap up, I think, because you're probably, Steve, you probably have stuff you want to jump off and do. Um, but let's actually come back and do this. like I think maybe we could bring a crew of folks together and just like start riffing on some of the like well can we do this and can we do that because I do think there are some things that I'm like at the end of the day I think yes like I think we can do the gated things like I've done some things locally that have been yeah pretty crazy with some different like authenticated sites but I was doing everything locally oh yay okay perfect great okay there's a difference between doing it locally I think so I think we could tag an engineer in a live stream at something so we and point all the hard questions to them because they know the inner workings. Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to get Stafford to come join us, but they had stuff to do. So, yeah. Okay. Well, let's plan for that. Busy times at Misilla HQ. I know. Well, we're doing some super cool stuff that I can't talk about. That is a secret. And oh my gosh, I can't wait till we can. Oh, I can't wait till we can, too. It's it like it feels bad to talk about something that nobody else gets to hear about, but like I'm gonna just do it anyways because I'm selfishly want to say this. I know. But it works for it works for the Laravel team. So, let's start the hike train early. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. They do do that. Anyways, um I just think it's going to be so amazing. And like having that on both of our resumes is like we were part of the inception of that is just and folks are going to understand what's happening soon. Well, arguably soonish future they'll be like, "Oh my gosh, I remember when Steve and Tessa were on a live stream." No, I'm just kidding. But and they were dropping hints but wouldn't tell us what it really was. Yeah. Well, I mean, the hint that I will drop is like evolution. Where do you take Tab Stack next? Yeah, exactly. That's what I want to hear from people. Drop a comment. What would you think would be a good next step with tab stack? Because you can automate, you can research, you can extract probably the batching if there's someone batch I think batching 100% batching. Um but bearing in mind it is part of misilla where would you take it? What would you do? I want to know what people do. What would they do? Because that that that's just then you we can pass that straight to the product team. Oh, there we go. There we go. I think that's the thing that's really exciting about TabStack 2 is like like you had said that engineers are so intelligent like just really great and really great humans too. Mozilla just has really great humans there in general. Um and I think that like the product is in such a beautiful place like arguably sure TabStack could maybe do a few different things, right? there's always something to be improved or to be added, but it's already in such a great place and they're working on the new secret stuff now. but for a, you know, for a product that isn't that old, it is awesome. Yeah, I agree. Like I there's products in this in a similar space who've been around a lot longer who are doing a balling job. done something right. Yeah. Well, you know it is Mozilla. They like to do it right. they do. Well, no one's giving you any ideas. It's a quiet afternoon. Not yet. Yeah. Evening for me. That's true. That's true. Evening for Lavojutsu or Ludovvic. I try to remember that whenever I do live streams and I got really good about remembering like don't say good morning, don't say good afternoon, blah blah blah. But it's like it's just so habitual to just like, you know, be greet be festive and and greet. Yeah. Yeah. You go on the school run and you're saying morning to people, then you get back and then you kind of forget, oh wait, it's 8 hours later for that person. True. So true. All right. Any uh exciting thing we want to wrap up with? like we're doing so many cool things that I'm like it's kind of all like I'm looking forward to the schemas when we have the schemas pulled together so it's like this roll with a predefined schema I think it's going to be really cool actually that'll be super cool because so when I was working on the tabs website which by the way y'all I was working on the website and then Steve came in and like made a few PRs and just made it like oh my gosh so much better than where it was with just a few little polishes. It was so nice. But when I was working on um Oh my god, I lost the thought that I was just going to say. Dang it. No, we were talking about schemas and the new website. Oh, that's it. That's it. Okay. So, when I was working on the new website, the top of it has like the little Nike example. And so, I was trying to use the geo target uh feature, which for anyone still listening, there's a geo target feature. So, essentially whatever data you're running, you can change the location at which that data is getting pulled from. So, like let's say that you're in the US, but you want to know about the UK, right? Or you want to get data that's like going to be from the UK version, the localization version of whatever you're pulling from. Um, and so I was trying to do that with Nike because I wanted to show off that feature because there's just a couple differentiations, right, with Tabstack, the manage, the, you know, geo target, some of those other things. So, I was trying to show that and I realized that I was like, oh my gosh, like I I used the the I think I used the MCP because I hadn't had the CLI installed, but I used it and ran a a test, right? And I was like, I need to find these Nike shoes. Like, I'm not going to put fake code on here. So, this code needs to perfectly run before I'm using it on the website. And so, we ran through and like sure enough, I can get all the Nike if I know what Nike product it is, it'll give me all the sizes. If they've got stock in those sizes, like there's just this massive amount of like data that exists, I think, on some of these e-commerce sites. So, anyways, I started nerding out on the e-commerce schemas that I think that we could write that would be really super cool that would solve some be cool. Yeah. Also the um I did build a raycast extension as well. I think you did. We should put that in the docs. I for I forgot I did that. I haven't published it, but we should look at that. I'll add that to my to-do list which is getting longer by the day. Um, but yeah, that just being able to like do this sort of stuff from the CLI or from your Raycast launcher is just really cool. God, that would be cool actually cuz I feel like I'm constantly pulling that up and then I could probably have it run I could have it run stuff a lot faster than like getting into my terminal or whatever else depending on where I'm at. Yeah, we'll get I'll get that up on GitHub so you can play with it and then we'll do a polish like I like we've done with the CLI and we can get that launched because that would be so cool. It would be cool. Well, Steve and I are living the dream, getting to work on a super cool product and really cool company and getting to just like build random stuff. you're getting to do subjectively more cooler things than I am because lately I've been doing some really boring marketing messaging stuff. But I shouldn't say it's boring because it's and I've really been rubbing it in. I'm not not going to lie. I have definitely been trying to rub it in a little bit more that I'm doing all the fun stuff. Lucky. I I have to I have to um join it. It's It's so much fun. Even just sitting down to write the docs is fun because I know what I'm doing it for and it's for a cool product that people are going to actually enjoy using. So it it beats writing docs for something that's like oh this is really dry. Yes, I don't look forward to doing it. So yeah. Yep. There's just endless possibilities. I think it's just I don't know the world is in that place too where like we have endless possibilities with all these new tools that we've been given and it's like all right how do we really build something just like truly earthshattering. Yeah. So cool. All right. Too many ideas and not enough time. I know. Well, Steve and I are going to try and do more streaming. Maybe we'll schedule one instead of being all chaotic and ad hoc. But I thought it was just fun to, you know, do a little live stream. make sure folks know that we are live on Product Hunt. So, if anyone is a Product Hunt user, I would like really greatly appreciate Dang it, I'm in an unauthenticated browser and I was just going to go show off Product Hunt and then I'm like, I'm not logged in. So, long story short, I'm going to post the link in the chat to share with folks, but we're pretty easy to find. We're in number eight rank. So, if y'all could go in there, I would prefer that we were a little bit higher. So, love the support. Here we go. Look at that. Get those ups going in. And I Oh, yeah. I also created videos. I forgot I did that. You've created videos for every single one of the product launches so far. So, you've been creating videos like crazy. Yeah. So much fun. Remotion. If you haven't used it and you like creating videos, but you don't like having to actually edit videos, Remotion's fantastic. It's just react canvas recording done. I need to try that. Yeah, it's got a uh Clawed Code skill as well, so you can kind of It knows what it's doing if you want to tweak it, but you're not sure how to do it with the code. Yep. So you like I kind of want to do this and some of the videos that I've created where it's sequenced. I'm like I want this bit longer but I don't want to mess up all the timing. So I was like okay I'll get Claude to kind of figure that out because it's done on like frames and how many frames per scene and Yeah that's cool. Go check it out. I will definitely give it an up vote. Um try it out too. Yep. Definitely try. You should try Tabstack. I think like we've kind of given that sentiment the whole time already how much we love it. So, at the end of the day, hopefully our our passion speaks through because there's just so much you can do with it. It's just so fun. Yeah, it's Yeah, it has been an absolutely wild ride. You know, I've done this sort of stuff for other companies before, but this is the most fun I've had doing it. It's because of being Yeah. Yeah, I mean you you are awesome to work with. Like you're just this big fountain of knowledge on kind of developer relations and developer advocacy. So I'm just like tell me everything. Well, I wouldn't say that part, but I'm more chaotic than anything. You have to you have to harness and enjoy chaotic if you're going to work with me. So I've got eight kids and a majority of them are on the SP. So chaotic is daily life for me. I can read between that. It's all good. All right. Well, should we actually wrap up this time? Yes. I will go say hello to my family and push up a few things and send you over a few documents I've created. Woohoo. All right. Well, it was lovely hanging out with everyone that joined us. We are planning to do more live streams, probably a little bit more focused with some actual content. Maybe we'll do some specific demos and stuff. Bring in Ashhatosh. Hopefully I I pronounced that correctly. Um Oh, shoot. Okay, cool. Got it. So, there's a there's a a shorter version. Great. Okay. Anyways, thanks y'all for joining us. We will see you soon. Please head over to Product Hunt and upload it. Even if you are watching this the day after or you catch this recording later, it still counts in the same month. Yes. So, because then it goes product of the month. Um so, please or week actually, I think it's week. Please go up vote either way. We really appreciate it and we promise to deliver right we and comment if you can and want to. We promise to deliver great developer experience uh entertaining live streams and always the truth. Always. Always. Five.