Dan Clancy talks to HOST AustinShow | Let's Chat Podcast EP 3

Hello and welcome to Let's Chat. Let's Chat is a live podcast where I talk with creators about live streaming and the ways that streamers and their communities shape culture yesterday, today, and in the future. So, I'm Dan Clancy. I'm the CEO of Twitch and I'm happy to speak to the Austin show or Austin, however we want to describe him. Hello, Dan. How are you? I'm doing well, Austin. And for those who don't know, Austin and I know each other well. So, this should be this should be a a a fun chat. Oh, yeah. Easy, easy peasy. We know each other very well. Um, going back to He really hates me. He really hates me. Totally. number one enemy, I tell you big time, Dan and I rarely get along. We really do. No, we'll have, you know, we're already planning a Laval Lada match um one of the years. That's right. That's absolutely right. I love I'm digging the hat there, Dan. All right. Well, well, um uh yeah, I I now I went back and forth whether I want to wear it for the podcast. I realize it's kind of become iconic, so I should wear it on the podcast. Absolutely. It's your thing, so you should embrace it as you as you have. Yep. Yep. All right. And so, um, uh, let's jump in here and for those that are listening, um, uh, we're going to go through where we're going to keep a little bit of an eye on chat and we may sprinkle in some questions, okay, from chat while we're going. Um, and I won't be calling out, um, who it is in chat, but I'll say, um, chat's got a question, so you can feel free to put it in. We're going to record the podcast and then at the end, we're going to have a little bit of time after where we're not recording the podcast where we may look at chat a little bit more. So if you have any detailed things, you may save it till then. So let's before we get into you as a streamer, tell me a little bit more about you growing up and in particular those aspects that you think um were kind of foundational in leading this to be your chosen career. Well, first of all, thank you Dan for having me. I'm I feel like a presidential candidate like I'm here I'm running for office. Uh no. Um well uh hello everybody. If you don't know me, my name is Austin Show. I've been streaming on Twitch since 2013. Um, I have done a lot of things on the platform that I'm very proud of. Um, and uh, yeah, where I grew up, I was born and raised in Oregon. Um, beautiful Pacific Northwest. Um, and uh, from a young age, I had a a really strong interest in entertainment across the board. I grew up watching a lot of reality TV shows, American Idol, uh, America's Got Talent. Um, I used to even host my own little um, talent shows in grade school. I would like bring people together um, and then do like little um, talent shows during recess. I I would do the same thing in my neighborhood. Um, and I would had a always had a passion for being on stage even as a young young boy and had a desire to be in front of the camera in some capacity. Sometimes it manifested as wanting to be a professional singer cuz my mom is a professional singer. So I was like, I want to sing. I want to do music. Um, obviously, you know, it's not my strongest uh thing. Um, or really not really what my passion is. Um, but yeah, you know, I grew up uh remember that do you remember the first time you were on stage? Um, in not just like in second grade, but do you remember any what jumps out in terms of in your memory? Not necessarily the first time, but tell me one story about a particular thing you did that jumps to mind like as as a young child or just like in in either as a child or or in high no child high school before you started streaming. That's like you know in other words anything that jumps out at you. Well, I remember the first time I was on stage was I was in a play in second grade and we sang I don't know what the song is, but it 500 25,600 the song from Rent. So, I don't I don't know what the play was. Maybe it was Rent, but I was I played a jock in the in the play and that was one of the first moments that I remember really being on stage and performing. Another another time that sticks out is getting the opportunity to just speak in front of a classroom. Um I remember 8th grade we all got the opportunity to speak up in front of like the entire class and I like gave a speech and um ma made everybody laugh, you know, uh with what I was saying. And so that those are some of my earliest memories of be being on a stage in some capacity. Yeah. I I I have I just have this image of a young Austin um performing and it just seems like it just seems like you know there your parents probably have lots of good videos somewhere. I was a terrible actor though, Dan. I was a terrible actor. I didn't get the lead role um in the play and I was extremely uh jealous of my friend who got one of the leads. So um but he didn't end up he didn't end up in entertainment at all. So clearly the producers missed it. They missed it. So now, so now get us to when you started streaming and like how old were you and what were you doing when when this streaming thing hit you? Well, I heard about uh I heard about streaming. I don't know how I heard about it. I don't remember how I heard about Twitch to be honest with you, but I started streaming in 2013. Um right right when Twitch was really in its infancy and sort of the wild west of the platform. And uh I heard about this Twitch thing. uh where I was at in life, I was uh I was an 18-year-old. I just graduated from high school. I was going into college. Um and uh I started streaming from my laptop in my dorm room um at the uh at at the college that I attended. And yeah, very early days. Twitch looks a lot different than it does now. Um but uh yeah, that that's that's how it started. I was streaming in my dorm room from uh freshman year and then into my sophomore year. And it truly started out as a hobby because when I started, Twitch wasn't a career. It wasn't it was it wasn't a career at all. This was not something that you would, you know, just start up and oh my god, this could be my job. So, I always looked at it as a hobby. And I would make I made some pretty decent money. I remember I had made, I think, $6,000 um from Twitch. And I remember thinking, man, if I walk away from this right now, man, I felt rich. You know what I mean? I was like, wow, I really what a success, you know, cuz I didn't expect to really make anything. And did you did you did you finish college or did you decide, no, I got to you finished college and then when you finished that's when you started cuz cuz um uh you in addition to Twitch, you do a lot of hosting in general for for esports and other things. So, when did you and and you're kind of unique in that um uh I find you unique in that you know you're someone who's been around Twitch since the early days, but you've always been kind of innovating beyond sitting in my bedroom playing a game. Yes. Yes. And from from the moment I kind of entered Twitch, I was always perplexed by the fact that everybody enjoyed and this is no I don't want to dis uh put down gaming. I I enjoy gaming. I came up on gaming. I played gaming as a kid. Old school Runescape, Madden, Halo, uh, Call of Duty. I played a lot of gaming. But for me personally, I was always perplexed by why people on Twitch weren't doing non-gaming content because I found reality TV and non-gaming content to be wildly more much more entertaining than than sitting and watching somebody play a video game. No offense, but for me personally, that's how I always felt. And so, I always challenged that uh part of the platform from the very beginning. in fact getting banned because I wasn't adequately playing enough games. For for those of you that that are here, you may not know, but there was a time on Twitch where it was actually a banable offense not to play a video game. Uh this is early early days. And Austin, I am sure would have gotten banned a bunch. Yeah. So yeah, way back when. Yeah, for sure. Certainly did. But um but yeah, my philosophy has always been to from the moment I entered the platform is to push um I' I've always wanted to create things that were different than what everybody else was doing. For sure. Now, now the thing that is interesting about you, of course, you're one thing is um uh it's not just gaming, but the other thing is you've always leaned into um um exploring more shows, having a little more production value as you think about it. So, why don't you tell us the story? What What was your first show that you think of the various ones you've done that gained notoriety? In other words, not not your first one that nobody cared about. What's your first one that anyone cared about? Well, I the first show that anybody gave a damn about is I think was a show called King of the Hill. And so, it started in like dating the dating realm, right? I would put four judges on the screen, male or female. Uh, King of the Hill was like four female judges. Queen of the Hill was four male judges and uh, we would bring on people. I was obsessed and still obsessed with the idea of bringing people in from the audience and bringing them onto the screen. I think that's such a fish out of water. You you also get to meet and get introduced to new new aspiring streamers and stuff like that. And I was obsessed with that from the beginning. So, we created a lot of our content early on was driven by this idea that we're going to pull somebody from the audience and put them in a fish out of water situation. So dating is like something that I've always found extremely interesting. It's extremely entertaining. It's widely relatable. So we created this format called King of the Hill where basically you would come on try to impress the judges based on your datability. And if you were good enough, you'd hold the hill and you would be competing against we would cycle through people and the as the people came through just like a schoolyard game. Exactly. You have to stay on top, right? Exactly. You have to stay on top. Um we did that. Um and then uh you know and by the way the the criteria was how datable is this person? Yeah. More or less. I mean it you know the lines were blurred. Sometimes we hadu judges that were not in relationships or or not you know or or single or whatever that wanted to engage in sort of dating content themselves. And so the lines were blurred and and and and in in that respect. that that caught on quite uh quite quite quickly, I'd say. Uh and really really was one of the defining uh um shows I would say that sort of catapulted me into a more mainstream conversation on the platform. Um you know, but that that led into Lover Host. Um, and Lover Host became a massive massive show on Twitch that exploded through co. Um, and uh, still I I believe it's uh, maintains relevancy and when when collaborating with people that the the formula still works incredibly well. Well, go through and so go through the lover host formula for those folks that have not seen. So, for those of you that don't know what Lover Host is, Lover Host is a dating show where we take a main contestant, typically like a streamer of some sort, and then we pair them up with 10 uh people that are vying for their love. The key is here is that not all the contestants on the show are there for love. Some of them are there for host. Host used to be I was actually really upset when they took away host cuz it kind of made the brand name, you know, lover host. Now, nobody knows relevant. No, no, we need to bring it back just so that your brand people understand it. I kept the brand though because I really don't think that the the the name of host really meant anything but really is host means betrayal, right? And the idea of the show is that you could either come on and choose love or host. Love meaning you're interested in the person and host meaning well I want all the viewers that come at the end of the show. So if you end up winning and you chose host well then you get you get hosted with all of the viewers from the show, right? And if it's love, then you match and it's happily ever after. So there's this multi-depth part of the show where it's like you have the person who's playing, the contestants on the screen are nervous, right? Because they don't want to be eliminated. And then the main person is nervous cuz they're trying to determine who's choosing love and who's choosing host. And even in instances where we had Syikudo on as one of the guests, main guests one time he got 11. We sometimes we put you know 11 people on. 11 people chose love. But even throughout that, there's still always the idea that somebody could choose host even up until the end. Okay. So, so um uh was there were there any relationships that came out of Lover Host? Yes. Abs actually. Yes. So, like I I I can't I can't I I'm not sure if they're any longer. I I can't I don't want to speak on them publicly, but there are people You don't need to give any examples. You don't need You don't know of any marriages. No, I don't know any marriages, but I think we're in line with the success of other reality TV shows when it comes to Yeah, you're right up there with The Bachelor. Yeah, exact. Exactly. Exactly. Um, so um now one thing I know that you always are passionate about and you really thought a lot about um early on because you and I talked about it once is um being a connector. M um and so talk a little bit about how you thought of your role of introducing streamers and helping people find, you know, an audience and who are some of the folks that, you know, as you were building a property that, you know, um uh it became a good platform for them to sort of broaden their audience and get people more, you know, aware of what they were doing. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the one of the cool things about the shows that I put on were that, you know, like you said, they they had they we had a lot of viewers and so we would bring on people and I feel like we had a a unique ability to identify people that were really entertaining cuz that was our goal is to, you know, entertain. And then these people would get on and then they'd build platforms for themselves and some of them went on to get millions and millions of followers. Uh I I have a hard time taking credit for those people and really like, you know, mentioning being like, "Oh, it's because of Oh, you didn't make them." Because the beauty of it is, you know, the reality is it's it's always a bunch of things. Yeah. Like, but but you know, a couple of examples like like Cutie Cinderella had early early spots on my stream, you know. Uh even Hassan [ __ ] had early spots on my stream. This is before, but by I didn't make any of these people. They wanted to have very successful careers of their own. Um but uh you know I I feel like uh you know yeah a a lot of people I see I see I saw myself as somebody who I wanted to collaborate and I still want to collaborate with a lot of different communities and sort of be the bridge between them. Um, you know, I think there's a lot of different communities on Twitch and having the opportunity to put on shows where I'm mixing and mashing these audiences together in ways that they never would be together before, um, has been something that I've always prided myself in and something that I hope to have the opportunity to continue to do for a very long time. All right, great. So, a question that chat asked, okay, is did you promote your show on social or was it just popular naturally? So, so interesting that you said that. I think that you need you need a combination of both and you know with with the Elon acquisition of X uh or Twitter. Um it has really really put a wrench in my marketing strategy for my content and and overall platform. Twitter used to be a place where you used to be able to send out a notification and it would reach your followers. Now it gets put into an algorithm. So, it's almost like a lot of the a lot of the my ability to market my shows um is been diminished and almost become like almost like a luck. It's like luck that that people are going to see it or or engage with it. And it's not reaching the people that I know are going to click on a Twitch link, right? The people that follow me, those people are going to watch on Twitch. You know, if it just goes out in the ether to random people, they may not even click it. So to answer their question, yes, I did a combination of those things, but also my marketing strategy had to do with like I I would tweet out, I'd put it on, you know, all my socials. I' I'd come up with a banner, right? And that banner would get engaged with by a bunch of people and then I would also talk with the creator that was coming on the show. I would appear on their stream. I would talk about the show. I would get hype. I would I would I would leak guests, you know. I I would I would I would I would start buzz around the show and I would do it myself and with social media, but at a certain point you need the audience to buy into it to start generating that buzz exponentially. You need like a product that is something people want to talk about, you know. Well, in fact, I I I liked this question because it it led us into one of the topics that I mentioned to you. I wanted to talk about is social media has really changed from back when some of your early shows. Yes. Um as you said, X was very different. Um, you know, it was not dominated the world of shorts and Tik Tok and Instagram. Yeah. Um, in fact, you probably like reals didn't exist back when you were doing Lover Host. Uh, not as much. No. Right. I mean, you you might have created I did you create YouTube videos of Lover Host? Uh, yeah, I did YouTube videos. Um, short form did exist. It it actually I I look back at some of my early Tik Toks and they actually we were uploading in 2021 um clips of Lover Host and they were getting millions of views at the time. Um I didn't it was a blind spot for me and it's a regret of mine that I didn't take it more seriously and didn't understand. I think this is something that I find really interesting about Twitch streamers in general is Twitch is a still to this day it's obviously much bigger than it ever has been in terms of its recognize you know how recognizable it is in reach but it a lot of people don't realize how insulated we are as a platform in some ways and especially back then I was not aware of like I didn't care about anything but Twitch the numbers on Twitch the views on Twitch. I didn't care about anything else. And a lot of Twitch streamers, I mean, still to this day, feel that way. You know what I mean? They they don't care about anything else. But there is a huge world of social media out there that can benefit and elevate your brand beyond anything that just Twitch. I mean, sorry, I'm on the Twitch channel, but you know. No, no, no. Actually, I No, it's okay because in fact, that's the topic. One of the topics I want to talk about is how it's changed um in terms of long form and short form. Yes. Right. because it's I often talk about how um short form people often talk about oh you know how can I get discovered how can Twitch to help me discover the reality is short form content is just much better for finding new audiences and even for reaching you know your existing audience because they don't have to show up y at any time and all they have to do is watch you for 30 seconds Yep. Right. Yeah. And um the world's totally changed. Yeah. So for me personally like I have a short form content strategy and I tell the people that I work with is that this is the end all beall. I mean short form is the end all beall. It has to be the top priority of anything that we do and anything that we produce because there needs to be a it needs to start and end with the short form strategy. How are we capitalizing on every singular moment from our broadcast and pushing that out and creating clips and pushing them out into short form on YouTube shorts, Instagram reels, Tik Toks like that is that is the that is the strategy. There is no faster way to grow than than through short form. Well, well, and I think for you, you know, of course, there's some people that um uh they create special content just for one of those platforms. Okay. For you, you create shows and live content from which you derive short form content, right? And it's and and all of your short form content for the most part is is um downstream of something you have done rather than just I'm editing this singular Tik Tok video and the video just comes from me taking a picture. M and I do think that that is one of the things that live streaming really helps for a lot of people cuz trying to figure out how to do this quirky Tik Tok video like it can be tricky and whereas you just go and create good live content and you say okay they're going to be 10 shorts from this. What are those 10 shorts? Yeah. Yeah. And it it's uh it's sort of uh been something that I need to I need to still improve at. I I think I think like creators should have a combination of doing like the the Tik Tok that's just built for Tik Tok or built for short form and their stream stuff. And I also have doubts as to whether I'm pumping out enough clips from my um from my content. You see these clip farmers and stuff that are just pumping out just thousands and thousands of clips. So, I'm not really doing that. I'm I haven't employed that strategy. But I'm also a little old school. I come from a quantity a quality over quantity type of mentality and that sort of comes into a little bit of I mean there's a new generation on Twitch that I'm not saying they're lowquality by any means but but they pump out a lot more they do they're very explicit that that it it is I'm going to let the algorithms find the good stuff. Yeah. Right. And then I'm just going to put a lot of stuff out there and the algorithms will find the good stuff. is you are a little more old school in trying to you know create 10 good clips or something like that. Yeah. I I think you know in terms of like you know going into my Twitch strategy I think I mean I I still believe that if you give you know I've got shows that I do lover host in the tub name your price um you know I have the flight stream show that I like to do. Um, you know, I just did a show called GDAR, which I think is which is a lot of fun, where we we again casting people from the public, but in person using traditional casting agencies live. Um, but I've always I've I've I I stand by my theory and strategy of I feel like if you create a piece of intellectual property, a show, you need to allow that show some space on its own to develop its own individuality and moment so that you can truly um like give it make something that people remember. So that's my goal is like whenever I make a lover host or whatever, I don't want to just like do a lover host and whip it up the day before, I want to spend a week to two weeks putting get putting together the cast and, you know, really really curating like uh and strategizing about what will this show look like when we put these people together? Um, and then hyping it up, getting to that moment, creating a show that builds to a crescendo and gives people something that they can remember, an impactful moment so that when you think a lover host, you think of that um, you know, you think of those moments as opposed to like just rushing through like a content slate. I I don't personally that's not something that I want to do. It's not something that I if if that's your strategy, that's fine. I I would like the things to to have a little bit more impact. And I feel like with how quickly things move these days, I feel like we forget a lot, you know, uh about what what just happened because they move so quickly. So, I know from our conversations, um you've evolved a lot in your content um uh um how you approach content on Twitch. Now, you've gone through periods where you've had with Misfits and other things where you had third parties that were, you know, getting you to to produce content and now um uh you know, you've been thinking more about the production stuff, but then also more about streaming regularly and and building community. So talk about how that has changed over the last few years in terms of what you're doing now, how frequently you stream now and also that experience because you know you are always on the production end more so than on the build community end. So talk a little bit about that. Well, I think, you know, historically I used to be able to get away with um doing less I always thought less is more on Twitch. And I would I would get I would get I I would tweet something, the tweet would get 50 to 100,000 likes of of of marketing. I would hype it up, the show would go live, it would get 150,000 views, and then I would go dark and get ready for the next show and and then hype that up. and I would do two shows um two to three shows a month and that doesn't work anymore. Um I think you know for a couple for for several reasons I'd say number one the platform doesn't reward that behavior anymore. So you can't the the algorithmically on the platform if you're not live as much your channel will be at the bottom of everybody's directory. So it there's no that that hurts. So I can't I can't I have to be live more often to to combat against that. The other thing is just people are live more now. Like this next generation is like people are live like more or less in some respects 24/7. And I need to be able to stream more often to keep myself in the conversation. But but you're still not how how many how how many hours a week do you stream now? Oh god. Still very little. I mean I still I still stream. Yes. Depending on the week. I mean like depending on the week. There there are weeks where I go 15 to 20 hours, but but there are also weeks where I go four, you know. So, um I think, you know, the nature that I I I I wish it wasn't that way, but that's just the way it is. And I have to compete, you know, truly I don't I don't enjoy sitting at my desktop and talking to my chat as much as I enjoy making shows. That's what I'm here for. I'm here to make shows. I'm here to make like, you know, events. That's my job. But in order to make those events happen, it needs to be a multi- a multi-dimensional strategy where I' i'm building the shows, but the shows have to feed the desktop, which feeds the next I I don't have a I need a marketing vehicle to promote my next thing. You know what I mean? And that used to be Twitter doesn't exist anymore, right? So I can't I lost that. That was a huge hit, right? And you and so now you need to be that marketing vehicle by at least maintaining some type of regular content creation. Exactly. Exactly. So, and this isn't this isn't like uh to be said that like, oh, I don't want to work as much. I love to work. I I spend, you know, a lot of and you work in a different way than your average streamer. You're you're you're and and really I I can't even think of, you know, a lot of times you say, "Oh, they're unusual." But then you can think of 10 people that are kind of like them, right? Okay. that that but I actually can't think of any other streamer that I'd say oh yeah that's they're kind of like an Austin show in terms of their approach. Can you think of any that you think of or like um I mean the closest uh No, not really. I I I I try to think cuz you know um I'd say that uh yeah I don't really know of anybody that doesn't stream as much as I do. Yeah. Well, also also focus, you know, in many ways I think um uh something from chat was um uh and I think I'll ask this question and then I think did you model yourself after someone or did you just learn to do do this as you went along? Like did you ever take a production class? No, I I just kind of created my own mo I I knew from the moment I've started on Twitch, uh viewers of Twitch have always thought anybody that's not streaming 8 hours a day is not working. So like a lot of people think that, you know, when streamers are offline, which in many cases it used to be true, um where like the only time we were doing anything was when we were streaming our video game or whatever and maybe we didn't prepare as much for our streams. But um from the very beginning I was like that's not me. So I would put in I used to have to adapt to that model and I would be live 3 to four hours a day but it was I was still called part-time back then. You know I I was never called a full-time streamer. People would make fun of me for the fact that I wasn't live 8 hours a day. Um so from the very beginning I was like this isn't me. I am I'm I very quickly stopped obsessing about the subscriber number and was like this isn't me. This is not what I'm going to this is not uh sustainable for me. I'm going to burn out. Um, I don't like that stress. I'm going to carve a a niche for myself where I can create meaningful content um that isn't as uh much of a daily presence. Yeah. Interestingly, and I'll state this as opposed to asking a a question because I think it, you know, I have something in my mind. I just ask a question and you may go in a different direction. I don't want to let you do that. Know that um in a strange way, you're someone in a different life. Mhm. You would have gone to film or TV school and gone into production and like in a different world you could be producing reality TV shows right now. You didn't go into like for whatever reason when you were going to college and all that. You didn't go into film TV production, but you really love to do production and you just do it online. And you learned it all yourself as opposed to going and having someone teach you how to do TV production. Yeah. I mean, I I definitely wasn't in front of the uh I definitely enjoy being in front of the camera. So, I think like, you know, I I don't know if you know, my my degree is in business administration. I think I would have probably ended up being a commercial airline pilot because that was one of my passions growing up as a kid, which I failed to get into in the beginning here, but um you know, laid the foundation, I think, for where I am now. Uh, you know, we we can go into that if you want, but but um uh you know, that's probably what I would end up doing. I don't have as much interest in being exclusively um behind you like being talent. The reality is you do both. The interesting thing is that you're allowed to do here. Yes. Is you're allowed to be in front of the camera. Yeah. Okay. You're allowed to be a Jeff prop, but you also are coming up with the ideas. Yes. Yeah. And I like to I mean I I I have a fantastic team that pitches me all the time. Sure. Um but I I've always prided myself as having the uh you know the gut instinct on what's going to hit or what's not going to hit. You know and and what's going to work and what's not going to work. And I think that that I think Twitch streamers are uniquely talented in that regard across entertainment because we have the uh benefit of getting instant feedback for everything that we do. And I think that that develops an intuition unlike any other in entertainment because a lot of people are having to be, you know, a lot of people are very reactionary and things in this media landscape are happening so quickly. Twitch streamers, I think, are are best equipped to uh having the the the best instincts uh on what is going to be good and what is not. Now that not everybody's going to be that way, of course, but I think that certainly the platform creates an opportunity to develop the best instincts in in media. Yeah. And have you have you ever been someone that aside from the people you know that watches a whole bunch of Twitch? Um, have I ever been somebody that watches a whole bunch of Twitch? A whole Right. Except for there's some there's some streamers you know well that I'm sure you've watched some of the streams. But um what I' Have you ever been someone that watches a whole bunch of Twitch? No, I've never I've never been somebody who has been a consumer like of like just across the board. I watch Twitch every day. Like I'm watching my favorite streamers every single day, but I'm I'm attracted to like non-gaming content, aventized content, political content. I really enjoy watching that on Twitch. Um whereas like um but I used to be more engaged in seeing what was going on. And I think as I've gotten older I Back when you were playing Runescape, would you watch Runescape streams? Yeah, I would. But but even then I I was just there to socialize. It's always been a social thing for me. I like to get in the chat and talk with people and stuff and have a have a stream on in the background or or see what's going on or or or whatnot. But I I've never been like a one to sit back because predominantly it's gaming and I I uh I enjoy playing games myself. I enjoy entertaining people with games, but I don't enjoy watching somebody play a game most most of the time. Right. Which, by the way, just an off-hand question. Have you like Have you streamed Runescape in ages? Do you ever think about, oh, I should go back? It's not something you've played in ages, probably. Oh, I I've played it actually recently. I I have a I have a great relationship with with Jagex and uh Old School Runescape and I I'm a believer that like uh I remember that community and and how many friends I have in that community and what they did for me and what that game did for me. So, I'll never forget them and I always make an effort to be involved in whatever I can with with Runescape. I it's still I grew up playing it. I started when I was 11 years old and I will always be a part of that community. Um, and I'll never forget the people that, you know, have helped me over the years. And I got an opportunity to actually host the Golden Gnomes at Runefest in uh this past year. Um, and they they uh which was great. And I got to host in front of a crowd of 2 to 3,000 people, which was like uh which was like a dream come true. Like if you could tell me back then, you know, when I was playing Runescape that I'd be hosting the Golden Gnomes at Runefest, like how how cool would that be? Okay, so um actually talk about I know I talked about some of your older shows, but you've been doing a lot of new stuff lately. So talk of the shows you're doing now. What's one of the you know, just share one of the ones you're like most jazzed about. Um well, it's always like what's what's right in front of me is what I'm most excited about, it seems. Um, but uh I just did this stream um called well well actually you know what I I'll say this uh Drag to Brunch um is a stream that like I'm really happy with. Uh I think it's wildly entertaining um but also it's some of the more uh impactful work that I've done. Um, I had an opportunity to, or for for those of you that don't know, Drag to Brunch is a show um, more like kind of like an IRL stream where I pick people up in a in a party bus and we go to drag brunch. And for those of you that don't know what drag brunch is, drag queens uh, are are performers and they typically do like a lot of lip-syncing and dancing uh, dressed in full drag. Um, and you basically you eat brunch and you get drunk and you drink mimosas and everything like that. And I got an opportunity to take uh Your Rage. Um, who Oh, that's got to be good. Yeah. Your Rage. I took him to drag brunch. And it's something that he had never experienced in his life before. And I'll tell you, it's one of the more impactful things that I've got an opportunity to do because I took a I got in front of a community uh that was they accepted me for who I was. And historically, you know, there there has been some, you know, I don't want to say homophobia is such like a bad, you know, not word, but just like people that just didn't never seen or been around gay actually sometimes as opposed to going to a word that's strong. There's some people that are just uncomfortable and it's not they just haven't experienced it, so they're just awkward, right? And and I I think that we need to define, you know, homophobia is like homophobia doesn't necessarily mean you're a hateful person. it just means that you maybe are uncomfortable and you need to be educated on a particular uh thing just to know that like hey it's actually not something that you should be concerned with and so I got an opportunity to get in front of a lot of people tens of thousands of people that um historically maybe were a little uncomfortable and I got to show them that like hey it's no big deal and Rage was great and I I give all the credit to him for accepting me and and opening himself up to a new experience and I also got an opportunity to to to live in his culture and see where he grew up. And it was like we did like a cultural exchange and swap. And it was again one of the I I I really like drag to brunch because it gives me the opportunity to make an impact in my own community. Um, something that really in my career I haven't really felt uh as as my shows have made impacts of course on people's careers and been been entertaining, but this was much more meaningful, you know. Yeah. So, so since you're a creator who's um uh I don't outspoken is the wrong word. You're very upfront about being gay. Yes. in terms of and um uh was that always the case or was there a point where it was not known that you were gay and then you you know as a creator publicly you know were you know sharing that to folks. Yeah. No, there was there was most of my life to this point was me being uncomfortable with my sexuality. I mean obviously I've been very comfortable in the last six or seven years I'd say. I think I came out I can't believe this but I think I came out in 2020 professionally. Okay. Is that when it was in 2020? And when did you did you come out privately well before then or just 2019 I came out one year before that because I had a boyfriend at the time and my and I had bought a house and I I needed to move in with him and my parents needed to know you know. Okay. So your parents your parents didn't know until 2019 right publicly in 2020. I was like 24 or 25. And there was like a there was a progression of of you know my sexuality through time was like I I I didn't know um I was gay when I was younger, but I but you look back and once you process it and you have like you're old enough and mature enough to understand and connect the dots, then you look back in time and you go, "Oh, that makes sense why I felt that way. I just couldn't connect the dots." Right? you know. Um, but yeah, no, I've been I've been extremely uh I was actually very fortunate to come out on Twitch at a time when the platform was extraordinarily progressive and accepting of uh LGBTQ people. Um, that during co it was like a a very predominantly progressive the biggest audiences on Twitch are very very progressive audiences. Um, that landscape unfortunately I think has changed. Um, but uh I think that it uh I I I just, you know, to put it bluntly, I just don't give a damn anymore. I don't care what what people think. I'm very proudly and openly gay. Uh I don't I don't, you know, I don't think anybody should care about any of that stuff. I think it's silly. I think that uh a lot of people are uh anybody that feels uncomfortable with people that are gay are probably projecting their own insecurity and they you know need to maybe take a look in the mirror and address that for themselves cuz that's that you know that's really it's really all it is and I like I said I don't I don't care. I I really don't care and I feel very empowered to say that that I just do not care what people think if I'm gay and I'm very proud to be gay. Well, I think I think um it's important that you're out there and and you you talk openly because that gives somebody else who's listening that's uncomfortable, if you will, um uh the Austin show of 2018. You know, in other words, Austin in 20 There's somebody who is, you know, Austin in 2018. And you weren't young then. It's not like you were 70, you were 22. Yeah, I know. and uh you know or even the Austin in 2013 or 2015, right? That by you you know by you being out front it helps them. Yeah. I mean I I was I remember going through it which is why like I don't want to like for for for for you know I don't want to shut anybody out. If you're being hateful I I don't there's no we don't have time for that. You're not ready to have a conversation right about that. But if you're just like, uh, uh, I don't know. Like, I'm I'm not going to be somebody who's just going to shame somebody for not understanding. I think a lot of people just need to be educated on it. And, uh, as I did, I needed to be educ and I'm gay. So, Austin, why don't why don't you talk a little bit um, uh, about the GLAD hosting that you did at the Grammys. Tell folks about what that was. So, I I got an opportunity to uh, to host uh, at the Grammys on the Grammys red carpet with an organization called Glad. Um it uh GLAD is a an organization that elevates LGBTQ people and uh in media uh that literally stands for gay and lesbians um uh against defamation. I always trip up on that acronym. I don't know why it's so embarrassing, but I always trip up on the acronym. But they asked me to uh co-host with them on the red carpet at the Grammys and I got to interview Paris Hilton um uh Reeba McIntyre, Will I Am Zara Larson uh and it was a tremendous experience and GLAAD is a tremendous organization and they have asked me and and I invited Will. We're hosting on the red carpet of the GLAD awards uh tomorrow or Thursday. Thursday. So the GLAD will join you. Yeah, the GLAD has their own awards um where they, you know, they give they give awards to the community and I think it's more important now than ever um to to sort of, you know, represent uh and and be be very proud and and and out there. So, I'm hosting with Will on on on Thursday. I did it last year uh and they invited us back. So, we'll be live on Twitch actually uh doing those interviews. So, I'll have to check that out. So, um, uh, talk a little bit. I know you just went to China and as I ask you about your trip to China, talk also about how you think about IRL streaming because, um, it's something you obviously did some there. But, um, you know, and you've obviously done some IRL streaming, but talk to me how you think about IRL streaming and been weaved that into your trip. Um, I mean, IRL streaming is a lot of uh, I mean, it's a lot of fun. I think um IRL streaming I've done it. I I was a part of the original IRL initiative with with the gun the original gun IRL backpack. Um I went on a tour around Europe with my friend Kirk and we did a lot of we went to several different countries uh and did IRL streaming. I think like my my IRL streaming is very uncomfortable for me because you really kind of have to shut down a part of yourself that has any sort of shame whatsoever. I mean, you really have to, you know, um you kind of have to shut out everybody else and be as polite as possible, but just kind of know that like you're there to do a job and you're there to entertain the people that are watching at home. Um so, I uh I do enjoy doing it. I enjoy exploring with chat. Um but the older I get, the more I'm like, I want to stream in places where I have explicit permission to do so. I want the I want to really know where we're going and that we're going to not be in uncomfortable positions where people have an aversion to us having a camera. So, as long as that is clear, I really love and enjoy uh going on like doing IRL streams. And this is not to disparage any other IRL streamers, right? Like IRL streamers are uh it's it it takes it's it's very difficult. It's probably one of the hardest parts hardest types of streams. Um, but it does it you do have to just just kind of I also figure I also figured that um it does take a lot of energy, right? And um my sense was that like if you're doing it, you'll do it. But for some folks, if you take someone like Jake and Bake, right? You know, in other words, he's just comfortable doing it all the time. And for you, it's probably just the type of thing that if you're going to do something, you'll do a very intentional thing, but you you don't want to do it too much. Like we went to China and that's a very natural time to do. Yeah. And every time I would do be this doing the stream, I wanted to do something very intentional. So like one of the streams that I planned was we got an opportunity to work at a restaurant. Like literally cook the food. You could never do this in the United States. you need licenses and permission and all sorts of stuff. No, we we worked the cash register, we served the tables, we um we got in the kitchen, we cooked the food, and we were operating this restaurant and we actually drove a tremendous amount of business to this restaurant in I think it was Chongqing, uh which is a city in China. Um, and we got an opportunity to do that. And like those are types of things I like to do with IRL streams that are very intentional. Like for example, this Glad stream that's tech, this is technically an IRL stream. I'm going to stream myself getting ready. Then I'm going to go down and I'm going to stream myself doing the red carpet and then that'll be a wrap on that. You know, Drag to Brunch is very much an intentional live stream where it's like IRL stream where we start in the party bus and then it goes to the right. It's like you like Yeah, that's a good You do very intentional IRL streams. Brag to Brunch is a very intentional IRL stream. Yeah. Cuz I want I kind of like I'm obsessed with like the beginning, middle, and end of a broadcast. Yep. Yep. You like an arc. That's why that's why I struggle with these desktop streams because they seem like they have no end and they have no beginning and they have no middle and they have no crescendo and um I'm not as interested in those. Right. Okay. So um uh last question. Sure. Um uh just talk a little bit about um obviously live streaming has changed a lot. Yeah. And um so talk to me about both where you see live streaming going and where is where is Austin going? You know who is Austin in five years and and you know how do you think about that and how you fit into live streaming in five years? Well, I think um I think I I I think that the the platform um in the next five years will start to hopefully, you know, I mean, I really have no idea, but this is I'll tell you what my hope is for the platform. I hope that the platform better sometimes as opposed to having to predict talk about where you want it to go. I I hope that the platform continues to expand into more formatted content, more showdriven content, more intentional content. Um, and uh, I hope that more more streamers lean into that type of content because I I do think it's more sustainable for a career is to build products and IP um, you know, uh, shows uh, non-gaming content. I hope that the the platform continues to expand in that. For me personally, I plan to uh in the next 5 years, I plan to continue to build shows. Um and and I'm looking for for me what's next that nobody's ever done before for me. Uh that's what I'm looking to do. And I've shared which we won't talk about here and I have he has some good ideas. He has one really good idea. But I'll tell you the biggest challenge, Dan, and and that I faced with several years, and it really hasn't gotten any better. It's uh the the ideas that I have keep getting bigger, but the the money that would pay for them isn't exactly there. So that's there's a disconnect. Yeah. What I think and um I I'll state my view of where Austin I think possibly fits in. I do think there's still lots of exploration in this synthesis of live and streaming TV where you have content that is shot live but still has a a you know strong life as a VA artifact. We see a lot of reality TV obviously is important and there's some folks that have played around with this merging of live and reality TV. I still think we're very early in that and you know as I think of you I think of someone that could pioneer and explore that and that way you're tapping into um uh larger budgets for your creative exploration and you're you deeply understand live and I think there's still a lot of opportunity there to understand how these two these two things merge. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I hope you be able to be a big part of it and I think that there's still a disconnect between traditional media dollars and our platform and I hope that they continue to sort of unclench their fists holding on to the and and send a little stuff our way so we can make some cool stuff on Twitch, you know. Yep. All right. So, um, thank you all for tuning into the podcast. We stream it on Twitch with a live audience. So, join us on twitch.tv/twitch TV/titch for the next show where you can participate in chat. Follow Twitch on socials for announcements, timing, and guests for future shows. And don't forget to rate and review. And we will see you in chat.