They’ve been listening

Let's go. So, yeah, Invincible Verse is getting changes. Big stuff be happening. I think it's right here. We don't have So, uh, the big focuses are that they're trying to get rid of assist loop infinence. I'm sorry. Um, and Tweety and anybody else that's using Conquest. I think it was what is it? Drudy was the one that initially came up with this. Um, but yeah, the conquest assist loop infinite probably going away. Um, sudden death needs to get reworked. It I don't think it was ever supposed to become a comeback mechanic, but it is. And block string stuff, which makes sense. It would make sense that at least there'd be cemented block strings with um like autocombo if not LMH or something. LMH special. Probably should be a block string. Let's take a look. We'll have patch notes eventually. We'll have a breakdown, etc. But we definitely wanted to get ahead of some of these focus areas based on things that we're seeing. So, and of course, combo breaker is this coming weekend. So, everyone is very excited to know when this patch is, right? Because we want to drop it right before the tournament, right before everyone. Oh, that's not the day of day. Actually, it' be in the middle of pools, we drop it. Wow. Yeah. Of course, everyone. So, for everybody, we are not dro like all of the tactics and meta that you've been developing, you're going to rock it at Combo Breaker. It will be released after Combo Breaker. Uh TBD will announce that, but it's going to be well before EVO. Yeah. So you'll be So after Combo Breaker, so after this weekend, but before the end of June, so probably within a month able to, you know, work on new stuff and have ample time before EVO takes place. Yeah, exactly. Won't do you dirty. Um but we want to load up into a match and use that to kind of help guide some of the So Tuesday. Sure. Yes. Uh Mike and Rick, you guys can take it away. Yeah, but these were the three big focused areas, right? So, I think first up, you know, you got to look at the assist loop that we saw. Uh, and you know, shout out to Tweet. He's got like some really cool combos, but when I'm talking about assist loops, I'm really talking about stuff like the Allen Infinite. You know, he had the Rea and he calls an assist and he calls the calls another assist. Pretty much the generic assist loop where the assist recovers after like uh only a few seconds, right? Uh, so we actually didn't really have an infinite prevention system. It's his his control. You got Oh, sorry. My bad. I'm really achieving. He's locked in. Sorry. Yeah. So, basically, we've got a little system in place now that's kind of an infinite prevention system for looping assist. So, yes, we still want to be able to do the combos that you've been coming up and labing with, but there will be a limit to them now. Yeah. So, we'll go into in deeper details. This is what we were assuming they were going to do anyway, that like the cool down on assist was way too low. Like every time you call an assist, it's going to start doubling the cool down time on that assist. Yeah, depending on the assist type, too. Like sometimes it's up by it. It goes like 3 seconds. This game came out. He has still early access. No, it's out now. It be out every single time. Sometimes a bit more if it's like a really juicy like back assist. So when it comes out, you guys will be able to dig into it about like whether you want to use more forward assist, back assist, and structure it accordingly so that the timer doesn't scale. As long as the combo still generally work, you can probably show that off here, right? It's a little hard. Okay. And I don't know what's in this bill specifically. I I don't even ask me to do Tweety's combo. There's no Tweety will show it to you later. Okay. And then he'll either be happy or unhappy, but you know, it's not going to be as infinite as it was before. That's for sure. Gotcha. Okay. What's next? What's the top three things? Block strings. Oh, yeah. We heard that. You know, how do they change this? If somebody's hitting you, blocking on you, there's a lot of people just mashing supers through it or something. I'll use the Eve super cuz I heard this one's pretty good. So now if you just want to hit like light, medium, heavy on me or something. There's a loop with Mark. That's forward special. Heavy on repeat is disgusting. That's normal. That's the normal combo fill of the whole game. If you do heavy forward special, you're doing like the worst damage you possibly can. That's the way they let the combos in this game are like killer instinct. They let you do whatever the hell you want. Um but to get actually good damage, you have to very much manipulate the the the game. You can't do the same thing over and over again. And if you do the same thing over and over again, it actually is is ass. It's really bad damage. Mash that super. I mashed it wrong cuz I don't have meter. But either way, either either way. Let me hit you close. I'll get my meter up. That's one way to fix it. Yeah. Yeah, sure. See, that was that was after the fact. Like I'm mashing. Yeah. I can't. Okay. Now, now do your blocking. I'll mash my super. Okay. There it is. It's like a gapless string now. Okay. So, LMH at least is uh is pure. Mhm. So basically, if you want to tell them more details about it, Mike. Oh, you know what? Dave Hall wrote me a nice little list because he knows, please say this. I can't remember anything. So, block strings are back for magic chains. So, you can do standing light to standing light. You can do standing light to crouching light. You can do crouching light to standing light. Go back. Go back. Hold on. Let me listen to this. Standing light to standing light. Right. Okay. So, beginning of auto combo works. You can do standing light to crouching light. You can do crouching light to standing light. Basically, a lot of the magic chains will work. The only ones that typically won't are if you're trying to go from a crouching medium to a standing medium. There will be a gap. Oh, so the stand m down loop does not is not pure. Oh, okay. So, that makes sense because stand down M is a thing that you can repeat on most characters and it's pretty hard to deal with. You're like, "God damn, get off me." You know, involved in those when you're trying to do like other high lows. So you want to have like assist calls really early on in order to try to cover, you know, trying an unblockable setup. Exactly. So basically, because our mediums allow you to go back and forth between them, like if you just want to block with conquest really quick, I'll show it off with battle beast. So if you're just blocking, I'm going to chase you down here. Like you know, you don't want this to be a blocking forever, right? So that's why the medium to mediums are not going to be a block. And then there are exceptions to the rules that Mike just listed as well. Like if you have a character like Mark, you know, his crouch to medium is actually a very slow one. So you don't want this jab to be this into a into a block with a cracking slide afterward, right? So there are going to be a couple exceptions here and there, but overall the rules are pretty straightforward. For the players who are still learning, why does it matter that you can't just mash super? Uh cuz that's really powerful. It's a it's really powerful and some would consider a bad habit. Uh if you're coming from other games. So we wanted to have some consistency. We want everybody playing the same language no matter, you know, where they're coming from. Uh so uh this gives people on offense a little bit more power because there's a ton of counterplay and actually a lot of strong defense. Okay. Yeah, that's that. So that's good is that the defense in the game was too powerful. So this is the the solution for them to counter uh how defensive the game is by giving you more I guess offensive tools. This would lead to easier unblockables as well, I guess. But it really depends on how much you push block would probably avoid it. All that stuff. So, we want to put a little bit more power on the uh someone who's trying to press. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to set up your offense now, it's gonna be safer to do so because people won't just be matching a super or armored move. Yeah. Again, dude, people were like porcupines. Like, you got close to them and you'd get stabbed. Captain basically. Well, we got about 10 seconds. I want to get I want to get them a little bit low on health. Okay. We got 10 seconds before sudden death. So, you guys you out. Oh, yeah. Cuz sudden death is something else that people have been talking about as well. And this we can show pretty easily. Yes. I mean, we can try to Well, I think it'll look a little different than people people are. And again, this is still work in progress. Not final final final. This is a great point. All right. Here it goes. Oh, now you're going to kill me. I got my Eve. We're good. So, what changes now? And sudden death. They have lower health. Still there. It's still there, but Oh, everybody's still there. My teammates didn't die. What? And wow. Even though you see that potential health, guess what? They can't gain that potential health back. And if you look at the deep back, what you're going to see is any of my partner characters, their boost regen does not happen. Not happening. But how about I combo your new assist breaker? Yes. We do that. Oh god, this is going to be terrible. Yeah. Now you've lost all my health. Lost all my health and it's not coming back. And where'd it go? Oh, okay. So, you still have to play it out. Like, you're dying, but you all have to play it out. Okay. Watch. I'mma snap them in. So, they barely have You should kill my character. So, I'm going to kill your character. They can see. So, now you're at a severe disadvantage if you only have one character. Like, this is much better. Like, pretty much the the intention of the intention of sudden death was always cool. Again, devs never fully comprehend sometimes for complete assholeery where it's like, "Okay, people are going to do whatever it takes to win." And it was turned into a comeback mechanic. That's not what they wanted, dude. That is not what they wanted. Exactly what is going to happen here. Oh, you got combos. Now, if you have three characters at the end and sudden death happens, you're likely winning. Let him let him kill you. All right. And to be completely honest, it's weird that it wasn't like this from the beginning. I think even early on, you have to understand that like the intentions were good. And it's the same thing for most games that have mechanics that like do something interesting. The intentions are good, but how people use them, you can't account for, dude. You can't. It seems like so obvious after people have put millions of hours into the game, but it always isn't that way, right? The only thing that I'm thinking of is if you have three characters, bro, on one side and somebody has like 20% life, you just run away, right? like their their lives are going to start coming down, but theirs is going to go down first, right? Don't you just cook it in the other direction? Why would why would you engage in any way at all if you had healthier characters? So, now it's like the complete opposite, you know? Now it's bounced back in the other direction because now you're healthier with a sudden death situation. We'll see how this plays out. Yeah, we'll see how this plays out. Now it's like, oh, if you're losing, you're really going to lose, you know. So then game and we want the action to move even faster. There's no uh it's just quicker to end them if you have three characters at this point. Also more risky, you know. Start thinking of it from the perspective that you want to win that you like do that you want to mitigate risk in any way possible, right? So you have to make the person that is losing play harder, So then game and we want the move. Wait, wait, wait. I got you. Was that Was that a snapback? It wasn't. Oh, it doesn't do the return to neutral. It's like Marvel vs. Capcom. Now you're going to go in with your characters. They're going to be limitations for both sides. And we want everything to escalate. You've already gone through, you know, 100 seconds on the clock. Winner wasn't determined. Now it's time. So we want that we want the fairness there, but we want the risk and reward to be there. And we want things to culminate in Yeah. Because he came in with no life and he just died almost immediately. Risk and reward to be there. And we want things to culminate. And uh what I like is that you don't have to hit them for them to die, right? How long does sudden death last is however much health you have? If you look back, the health is just slowly going downwards, right? When you're not being offensive or something like that, the health just naturally goes down. So then death. So we really want to press the I still see there being a potential issue with it, but it is it's no longer as frustrating as it was before where it became a literal comeback mechanic for one person that had one character left. Still keeping the spirit of sudden death in the spirit of sudden death. The intent of sudden death, but we wanted to bring in fairness and we wanted to bring in an escalation. Yeah. So you don't feel like, you know, you lost your characters. And even though you were getting meter, super meter, and boost meter from your extra characters before, people still felt like they were losing too much from it. Yeah. Getting punished for winning the whole match was was proper shite. Yeah, it was it was it really sucked. So that's gone now, you know. And yeah, should it be really hard for the person that has one character left that doesn't have much to go up against three people? Yeah, you know what? It should be because to be completely real in any other game this [ __ ] would just be done. I won, right? I won. That's the way it is. I won. Um, do you want to show one more time or do you want to any more stuff you want to add or how do you feel about There's other things that we can talk about. Okay. Yeah. As well. Maybe one more match or go to another match. You want to character select? Oh, sure. Why not? Yeah. I'm trying to think of what are the characters we can run. Oh, yeah. I guess we should just show this character and this character. There's obviously character balance coming too which there's some stuff in there. We're not going to list them all here, but any Oh, I wonder is that in this? It might be in this. I'm curious about what is in this build specifically. Yeah, in any other game you already get the W once the timer hits zero. So, it being super difficult for the person that's behind is completely fine. Specific tweaks that we're doing as well. You don't want it to be a comeback mechanic, dude. they shouldn't be getting kits. Notice areas where you know h be a little bit more fun, a little bit more consistency, some things that should be punished. So, additional work towards those things. Um, and I can't remember this build difficulty spectating this game for fun. It's weird that I have more fun watching people play this game and how they play it than a lot of fighting games I've seen in a very long time since like Tekken 8, at least in season one. you know, if you happen to cast in a like I I have people I like watching people play similar teams that I do and they just play this [ __ ] completely different. Um, so to me it's like I I'm actually having a very good time watching a large amount of people just try this [ __ ] and see what they do because there's a lot of interpretation to the gameplay. There's a lot of interpretation to combos. There's a lot of interpretation to neutral and assist usage, you know, and also breakers people are really excited about. So now if you'll notice when you call these projectile assist, they aren't as far back as they used to be. The position has changed up quite a bit. Oh. So if Eve, if I'm going to do like a one, two, three, Eve assist here. You can see Oh, that's that's way Yep. So that's the easiest fix, right? We were talking about this. What's the easiest fix they could have done to um Cecil, Eve, and Robot? Uh was just positioning. Just move their position closer or in front of the of the uh of the attacker, and they'll become way worse. They'll be good still. Don't get me wrong. They still will be very good, but they will not become nearly as frustrating because they acted as natural combo breakers, you know. They hit the character, right? So, I'll do it one more time. You guys can try to do a combo and see if you can put something together. Uh, just to see. Oh, sorry. I messed you up, didn't I? You get the point, though. Yes. You want me to counter you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to call Eve as you try to do something. Okay. One, two, three. Eve coming. Happy birthdays. Yeah, you can see there's more life being done now to the assist during happy birthdays. If you can put together a full combo, it's going to be very, very damaging on the assist. Uh, and boss girl assists also take more damage. These are all very good changes. These are all very in tune with the way the game is working. Small quality life. Small quality life. So on the leap, we keep the momentum so you can actually go down into like her uh her light attack. Yeah. So, prior to this, like her dash is that unique jump right there and she would stop her momentum when she did any any of the normals out of it. Yeah. Assist needed to get hurt moreum. You can just literally right now assist can sort of be thrown out to body block for you, right? Like legit body block. And it didn't really matter because their life would go back. They'd go back to the backline and their life would recover really quick. Didn't really matter. Significantly. though and also you know we know people have been saying that there have been move yeah the backline also getting damaged more makes the games go faster which I think is a thing that they should actively be trying to fight against and that's the games being longer is just because the the defensive mechanics in the game are more powerful than the offensive mechanics currently which is interesting because most games are very different than that difficult to punish one of them was this mark wheel kick I was going to say yeah yeah so this one you know it's it was punishable but it was kind of difficult to punish it so now should be a little again early Invincible Versus reminds me a lot of Marvel vs. Capcom 2 early on. Um, it all it always went to time, dude. Like in chat, you'll even see that nowadays if you casually play Marvel vs. Capcom 2 and you don't play the best characters in the game that do crazy damage, brother, those matches go to time constantly, constantly until you really like optimize teams and learn how to do big damage. It takes forever to get the hit and then eventually by the time you get the hit, you're not doing much. And then if you actually get good at the game, you eventually get a hit and then do a lot and then things they they begin to die. Not everyone's going to have cable unblockable or sentinel damage, you know. So yeah, easier to punish. You see the punch indicator there. We've made some modifications across the board to certain moves that have been really strong in that regard. This was why Cable and um this is why Captain Commando is so valuable as an assist in a game like Marvel 2 because why? because you don't have to ever hit the opponent, dude. Like, you never have to actually land combos. Capcom would come in and smash the ground and hit hit their assist, if not point character when they're doing [ __ ] and just do a solid like 15% if not more if it was a counter hit. So, most of the damage was coming from assists. Most of the damage eventually was coming through like huge damage, single hit, piece the hell out kind of assist things. I know one of the more controversial ones is going to be Mark's Lariat, but like you know it's not final, right? It's not final. Final, but you can see the ranger significantly less. Oh, that's way less, bro. Also, now if it's blocked, it's still good. Yeah, it feels like a good and he is minus. So, if I'm trying to match like a DP after this, not going to get it. That feels like a good change, though. I can go first, but Mark can close the gap. And it doesn't push you back now. So, you lose your turn. Yeah, that was that [ __ ] was wacky, bro. Uh and then we've got this girl, Eve. I showed you the back assist, but she has a super that's pretty good, too. This uh back super right here. Much easier to punish now. There you go. Uh also, they probably just increased it a few frames. I'll let the no say the rest of it for you guys. But, you know, there's some other changes to it as well. All work in progress. You still have assistance still strong as it should be. It's a versus game, bro. I mean, it kind of bums me out that the majority of specials, like normal non-armored specials in this game, a lot of them are unsafe. To me, that's still weird. Specials should be safe. It's a versus game, dude. Like, I don't if you're if you're committing to some big thing that has armor or invulnerability, yeah, those should probably be punishable in some way, but no, I actually disagree with making the majority of things punishable. I disagree with it, dude. What? How much [ __ ] is legit punishable in Marvel 3 or Dragon Ball Fighters? Straight up. like actual versus games, not 2v2s, like no big 3v3s. Characters got to [ __ ] die, dude. Like, and again, the game already has an issue where offense is not necessarily powerful. So, what is the benefit of having specials that are safe, dude? You you want your specials to open up the opponent. Like, you legit do you want your kind of special that's kind of powerful or covers a lot of screen space to open up the opponent in some way in combination with assist. You know, if you commit to EX, yeah, it should have armor and that should be unsafe. I'm with you 100%. But I think the majority of like specials, dude, if especially if they don't have invulnerability, should be just safe. They should just be fine. You should lose your turn like what they're doing with Mark Punch. Uh, anything else you want to tell them? Uh, we can save some. Yeah, I think we save some anything. But, uh, Runaway we know was like kind of a thing that was very powerful as well. We've done we've taken some steps to alleviate that a little bit as well. Yeah. What are Dave's notes? Um well, one of the big ones that we don't have in here uh that it's really hard to demonstrate here and you're not going to believe me until you play it, but uh motion inputs. So, we looked at um DPS again and uh and loosen that up. So, I know there's players that are still having trouble with DPS. Uh we've been testing this with some other folks outside of the team. We think it's in a pretty good spot. So again, number Yeah. Exciting. Cool. Do you want to do one more sudden death? It seems like they just got the the input buffer probably changed, right? Feels like the input buffer changed. I like it. I like it. We're going to close out here. Oh, yeah, why not? Yeah, why not? Was there anything else going on? I forgot, man. I think it's enough. That's probably enough for now. And then we'll once we get more solidified, we'll have the patch not. Remember, it's the uh the assist loops adjusting to timing on assists and combos. Yeah. Uh Cecil and Eve got nerfed because their assists pop more more in front of the character instead of way behind. Now, it's a lot. It's going to be a lot. Um it's regen rates, motion inputs, and there's going to be a whole lot more. You saw some of So, this isn't it. This is actually not it right now. Previews that Rip and I were showing everybody. Um but yeah, that's basically coming after Combo Breaker. Yep. Guess you guys just going to fight now. We're fighting. I don't know if Michael's fighting. I'm fell asleep at the wheel here. Oh gosh. Oh wow. Cash fell apart. It's a wonderful couch. We just didn't set it up right. No. I was about to assist break and I was like, wait, my life though. You don't want to. It's It's depends how much you want that character to live. Yeah. You lose all your life if you assist breaker. Now, that's crazy. So, this is where you got to be on your toes. Yep. So, you have to think about it way more. In the event, and I'm saying it, in the event you do go to sudden death, you got to remember that now your assist characters are going to get tagged right in. Yeah. You got to stay in your toes because everyone forgets. They're like, "Wait, what? Where's the round reset? Get off. Okay. Oh. Oh god. Oh, that's punish. No, I gave the life away, too. It's like Oh my god. I didn't know that could happen. That was tight. Interesting. I fell asleep. Cuz he was brought in with no life. I didn't know you could kill two. OH, WHY WOULD I DO THAT? NEW STUFF. OKAY, so this this sudden death change actually feels like the way sudden death was probably supposed to be. Oh my god. Oh, why would I do this? You do build boost for the backline when you break, but it's not very much anymore. Is that a change fish? Cuz like that was the problem with with assist breakers is that or just breakers in general, tag breakers and assist breakers, is that they just you built too much you you built too much boost gauge in the background. Yeah, use all that meter. I did. It was intentional. I'm not matching at all. Come on. Damn. So, she has got no life. Oh, come on. All right, that's it. Walk it away winner. Y. Well, yeah. So, we'll have patch notes when when that's ready. We'll do all the coms necessary so you guys know uh when it's out. Okay, cool. Um so, yeah. Thank you. Um so, it sounds like that's also not it, right? This this is like the beginning of it and they're still testing a bunch of [ __ ] That was a good ending. That was So, we're going to take a quick break and do something. Okay. Uh I think Alex also comes on the stream a bit later. Um, yeah, a lot of this makes sense. Like it feels like a lot of it is stuff that they're paying attention to just in terms of like the grievances with the game. Again, the the beneficial thing here is that the game's already very fun. It's seemingly like found its audience. Like people that like it like really are into it at this point. It's like a refinement on overall mechanics and frustrating aspects. Sudden deaths was frustrating. Having people mash like crazy in between every block string was frustrating. Was it killing the enjoyment of the game? No. I think I would be down for more of an offensive focused game or at least a more balanced one, right? And I don't mean balances and I want the characters to be balanced in some way. I think that they want the game to probably be right in between both where you can have an offensive oriented game and a defensive one because again, the defensive stuff is so powerful. I just want more ways to open people up. And I it I think it also makes sense that if they make block strings really damn good, then the unblockables, the the hard two blockables will also be really damn good. And you'll have to be paying attention to that stuff much more, right? You just have to be actively using your defensive stuff against that much more.